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Map Jam 8 - Release - Film Noir
After weeks of mapping, and a few delays, Quake Map Jam 8 has finally been released! This time around there were four submissions,

- Ionous with his map "Buried by Time and Dust"
- Newhouse with "Black Future"
- Pritchard with "One Ranger Two Boomsticks"
- Shamblernaut (myself) with "The Hackopolis" and the start map.



To install, just extract the zip file to your quake directory (remembering to preserve directories). Run using your favourite (limit extending) engine with the commandline options -game jam8 +map jam8_start. Happy fragging!
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Unfortunately, mappers for Quake can't afford QA teams /s

The fact of the matter is that DP breaks a lot of things vs. other engines, I mean it has a whole set of cvars to revert behaviour changes (I wonder if fiddling with those would help your problems? I'm not familiar with them at all), sv_gameplayfix_*, just so that it can be made to work more or less like the original engines.

The outcome of this is that people who don't test against DP (like myself, I did try loading my map in it for a lark but I never played it all the way through) tend to produce maps that won't compensate for its quirks. There's a reason I only listed one engine as "Designed and Tested for" in my readme.

Anyway, minirant that's been said a thousand times before over...
There are a few coloured textures in map, specifically anything that wasn't touched by the palette such as fullbrights (this can be seen on the various mdl light fittings, which have blue and yellow tints), and I think the start of NewHouse's map is supposed to have coloured lighting. .lit information isn't affected by the palette, but no one seems to have been brave enough to use it to add colour highlights anywhere other than NewHouse, and they did it quite subtly.

It's interesting that you're having those other issues especially though, since I've had none of them. The car poster sits a good few units away from the wall in my copy of the start map, which is strange since that doesn't match your description of it. And although I didn't get that you're supposed to attack the movie posters to select the film which made me think something was broken, once someone told me it worked fine.

The only difference that I can think of is that you said 0.92 rather than 0.92.1 for your QS version, but I'm not sure what changed and I doubt it was anything so significant. Weird stuff... 
I get a 'not type 2 or 10 error' with Spas but that might not be the maps fault...even at 1280 with DarkP it's choppy... 
Try: r_useportalculling 0 in Darkplaces and let me know if it helped with a case of flickering.

It is generally not a good idea to design a map for one specific engine.
Yes, but Darkplaces has many parts rewritten. It treats physics and other stuff differently. It even can't "emulate" original Quake 100% accurately. For example, map works in all engines, but is broken in DP, because it calculates some shit differently. So if I hear map is broken, I already know what engine player is using.
DP is like a beautiful but handicap girl. Looks nice but need special care. 
Wheelchair Prom Queen 
That's... One way to put it, I guess. Poor DarkPlaces... 
I used DarkPlaces just fine for this mapjam, no issues or choppiness :) It's my preferred engine and since this 'jam was based on Arcane Dimensions prog's I figured it was okay.

Now mapjam7 with Quoth, well that's a different beast there. Had to use QS ofc.

But I ask, is it really that difficult to have updated versions of each engine and if your preferred engine is not working just use the current defacto standard(QS)?

That is what I do at least. 
To be honest, I really wanted to make it work on DP as well, but had to make some fast decisions which probably made it unplayable in DP. Things like invisible walls don't work in DP? So I simple thought I want to focus on Quakespasm at the moment. Also my previous jam map wasn't meant to be played on DP.

Though it didn't know teleports doesn't work in DP? Maybe it is handling player's position and collision detects differently.. or maybe even player's collision box is bigger or something. I have no clue something like that is changed even in DP, if that is the case here?

Standalone version(s) definitely will be tested to be played at least with the current version of DP, isn't Quakespasm going to have many of the same features like DP as well? Even mankrip is working on his own engine thing that looks so far a lot like DP. 
By "invisible walls" I mean wall with the rmq_transparent wab's texture invisible "pinkish texture". I heard it those didn't worked in some engine and it might have been DP.

So why I used invisible wall instead basic skip? Well for some odd reasons when placing skip brush between func_breakable bricks and button behind them, for some reasons lighting didn't liked that at all and button's front face was pure black. Maybe I just didn't placed it correctly or something.

Teleports should be placed well for at least Quakespasm. 
I'll take responsibility for the start map issues. Although I don't think anybody has had issues with it in QS with the supplied palette and mod.

I didn't even test it in darkplaces, in fact I don't even have it installed.

I used the latest version of quakespasm and packaged an older verson of AD (from link at the top of the AD thread) with it. Hopefully that hasn't introduced any bugs. 
Could you please shared where did you even download newer DPs. I tried to look at Moddb site but couldn't find the actual download button.

Is this the right site even?

I have plenty of time, so I will try to make it run on DP, if it only requires couple changes and not massive amount. I will share updated version here. 
Just Tested NH's Map In DP... 
DP's teleport problem in NewHaouse's map can be resolved by jumping into this teleport, instead of walking into it. 
Okay I tried this darkplaces-sdl engine:

And this happened in many places inside this old factory area. I'm not quite sure how Dps handles drawing. 
Does anyone that frequents this forum and maps for Quake really give a fat rat about DarkPlaces? I know I don't.

Complaints about how DarkPlaces runs Quake maps poorly, while at the same time mutilates game play and ruins the appearance of them, probably belongs in the DarkPlaces forum. Not here.

That of course, is nothing but my personal opinion. 
For a long while DarkPlaces really was the best Quake engine out there, and a lot of the conventional wisdom floating around the Internet has solidified around DP. If some random person is aware that modern Quake engines are a thing but has not really followed developments for the past few years, they will probably be enthusiastically recommending DP to whoever asks. Ditto for a lot of older webpages that have tips for running Quake.

So a lot of folks use DarkPlaces, for better or worse. I wouldn't blame a mapper for ignoring it, but there are benefits for your (potential) audience if you check your map to see if DP breaks it.

I actually don't want to sound like I'm throwing shade at DP because it does a lot of impressive stuff -- it's a huge amount of technical accomplishment and I'm just a guy typing on a messageboard about it. It's just that DP is occasionally a bad choice for playing vanilla-ish Quake content, so it's unfortunate that it still has pole position in the info that is out there for new folks wanting to play Quake. The situation is what it is though.

Anyway... someone above asked about recent DP builds. You can check out;O=D 
I need to make couple changes to some places, I basically need to cut some brushes so every vertex point is connected to someone else.. that might be the reason why in some views some parts of the map when running in DP doesn't draw faces that should be visible. 
Proper Testing 
You spend weeks working on a map, yet can't be bothered to spend one more day to test it in the most common engines and make sure it works there... DP sux, Quakspasso 4eva etc bullshit. Go test it properly; everything else is just lazy and unprofessional! 
Didn't really get your point since I'm willing to try out to make it work even in DP. 
Negke, True 
but DP sux, Quakspasso 4eva anyway 
DP Was Ok, Then Daspazz Came Out 
What was the particular reason for including an old, out of date version of AD in the release? I'm not sure how out of date it is, but it seems like a big risk given that I, at least, was developing against the latest version. As far as I know, nothing went wrong with my map, but still...

It's especially funny given the current context since according to the readme, patch 1 added a bunch of fixes and improvements for DP. Ah well. 
I hope that was kidding.

No way would I install every off-the-wall, Saturday morning, WankWankBlingBlingQuake project just to test a map.

Test in Fitzquake and Quakespasm. Those are closest to the original as can be found for modern hardware. As long as everything works with those two, that is good enough. 
1996 called, they want you back ;)

Funny how you want to "define" original Quake. Considering that the greatest gift of the game, by way of John Carmack, was modification in every single aspect. Replaceable content, QuakeC and finally... release of the source code and ID maps.

And as far as your "As long as everything works with those two, that is good enough." well, that not true either. As the latest "big" mod release, Arcane Dimensions, obviously took Darkplaces into consideration for it's release.

You can play Quake however you want to, but that doesn't mean you can tell everyone else how they are to play Quake. 
Actually Rick is like, in charge. He gets to tell everyone what to do and how to do it. Didn't you know? We had a vote. Very democratic.

It's really about standards. Jam maps are not meant to be made to high standards; they're pack releases, and authors are invited to contribute what they have regardless of the quality (sensibly, of course). The deadline can mean that they don't necessarily have "one more day" to test a variety of engines and fix bugs.

Personally I'd expect a map that was released by itself today to either support more than one engine or explain why it doesn't ("This core functionality of my map simply can't be made to work the same in DP/QS so I had to choose one"), but I don't think the same standards should be leveled at a map jam or speedmapping event.

Why hurt the creative process with additional technical baggage? Just let mappers be mappers and release whatever they want. You don't have to like it, but don't expect more from them. 
One of the coolest things about playing the Noir maps in DP was the blood stains! It was very "Sin City" esque, I loved it in your map Pritchard.

And I don't expect more from any mapper, let them create exactly how they choose. That's why I keep up to date versions of several engines. 
1996 called, they want you back ;)

Not to be a pedant, but "old games actually weren't that ugly" is a relatively recent invention. 
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