|Posted by Shamblernaut on 2016/10/16 22:23:12
|After weeks of mapping, and a few delays, Quake Map Jam 8 has finally been released! This time around there were four submissions,
- Ionous with his map "Buried by Time and Dust"
- Newhouse with "Black Future"
- Pritchard with "One Ranger Two Boomsticks"
- Shamblernaut (myself) with "The Hackopolis" and the start map.
To install, just extract the zip file to your quake directory (remembering to preserve directories). Run using your favourite (limit extending) engine with the commandline options -game jam8 +map jam8_start. Happy fragging!
Palette hacks are for us 8-bit old farts. True color replacement graphics won't be affected.
Your demo is uploaded, see links above.
All demos are on nightmare.
I will upload them on youtube too.
I felt like I didn't' give your map enough credit from my initial post.
You use AD entities well when it came to ambiance. Plenty of light sparks, breakables, models to show for it. I think the centurion and the zombie knight are the only AD monsters seen however.
I also found you could get stuck in a few places if you try to backtrack (I make note of some on the demo)
Thanks for your words.
It surely is possible that I wasn't able to find all of the places where you could get stuck. I want to point out one thing though, in ionous stream he simple didn't notice he could break bricks that were in front of one secret gun (plasma gun). And also after breaking one secret wall inside that old factory, even if you fail trying to jump to other side where quad damage was, stair bricks push out from wall near this yellow armor secret so player can jump up back by using those.. but I am sorry that I didn't lit it well enough for the player.
Another thing I want to point out is that.. I couldn't use this ganster/mafia theme because it doesn't fit together with my upcomming whole lenght episode... so I made something I could use even..
So I really hope it could be possible quake future city like ones in doom2, remember downtown map and also map from the plutonia experiment "Odyssey of noises". Unfortunately that was maybe too much, there wasn't enough time for the bigger map
Playing my map on Darkplaces is not good idea unless you will not get mad that I used invisible textures at least in one place, because the simple skip texture give me so much trouble to place between one button and bricks.
Some very impressive work, but:
a) what happened to those grunts-with-fedoras (I think khreathor made them)? They would have worked really well in Pritchard's map.
...and, more importantly:
b) I don't get the whole business with using desaturated textures AND a custom palette. I found that *almost* everything is improved by deleting the palette file: the contrast between the b&w visuals and the coloured HUD/enemies/pickups is what makes it work; if everything is grey it just becomes oppressive. Pritchard's map looks better in colour (without losing any of its "noir" vibe).
The only exception is the start map: why oh why was it textured only partly in b&w? As is stands, either you have to play it with the palette, in which case the desaturated textures are pointless, or you delete the palette and it looks bad, because it wasn't consistently textured in b&w.
I'm sorry if this sounds negative. There is a lot that is very impressive here -- that start map is beautifully made, for instance -- but it could have been so much nicer...
"a) what happened to those grunts-with-fedoras (I think khreathor made them)? They would have worked really well in Pritchard's map."
Totally agree with you. After all it was.. only map with grunts after all? So it wouldn't affect on other maps or themes.
It's me who you want to blame... Unfortunately I haven't finished grunts, but I'm slowly working on Gangsters mod.
If Pritchard will be interested in extending his map, I would love to add it as one of the maps in mod.
Khreathor & Bloughsburgh
Thanks for your demo khreathor, it was pretty fun to watch ;) unfortunately I can't much help through that phone. But certainly see couple parts I should put more thought about now that I have more time for this this map.
This second scene after first spiders in old factory where suddenly lights went off, earth starts shaking(earthquake), lights's cover glass breaking in over you and fiends appearing when lights turn on below you, I really need to extend that glass floor a bit so players will not out run that intended 'cinematic jumpscare' scene. If you stop and try to act like normal human would be in "real" situation, that scene would make whole lot of sense* But I really need to try to execute in a different way, maybe adding more on scripting so it indicates which type of player you are -> careful/slow or wild/speed runner.
In my school I talked about this situation how to make it much more understandable.. one person suggested to add falling building structure that would break the glass.. sure it would be a lot like in this case that it will be falling in front of you like in this case but the visual message should be much more fair that way.
Stupid me just thought people would already worry about ground, because in the beginning player had to worry not fall down to lava pit, worry not die while running over that subway hallway and in both cases there were earthquake and something happened on the floor making it dangerous, but maybe there were too much pause between those scenes. It is hard to see what people are thinking just by watching demos, but those are better than nothing and I really appreciate them.
Thanks for everyone so far sending these demos*
How long does it usually take for a release like this to show up on Quaddicted? It'd be the easiest way to get my less quake-literate friends to play, thanks to the Quake Injector.
I'll share with you NewHouse, what my player mind was thinking during the fiend pit scare:
The first screen shake section encouraged the player to run fast to escape the breaking floor. So with that in mind, the next time the screen shakes, I figured I need to run because the floor is crumbling beneath me. Now add that it is extremely dark in this section and you have a recipe for fiend soup...er well...fiend's soup.
But an unintentional side effect I am sure, I used my brain and grabbed the pentagram and used that to tackle the pit head on!
Your map had some crazy stuff going on with it and it is certainly one of the showstoppers in the jam.
Actually now it makes a lot of sense. Though I am not quite sure yet how to make it for the extended version. I really thought that darkness would make the player stop and think... but there was too much light.. and I can only assume that was their focus in that moment (even though they might not have notice that, because something like that happens really fast).
Your jam map seemed very close combat focused which I liked a lot* Beginning & Ending parts were the most memorable and very good pacing in overall. Maybe too much hogres in a sense.. since hogre is z aware ogre, so it would have benefit more.. placing couple of them higher than the player or lower.. but other than that basic game flow felt really good. Is this really your first release?
If someone would be interested, I'm making one tweaked version during this week, so if you're interested play testing just let me know, my email should be on my profile.
My Few Thoughts...
Shamblernaut: First of all you have a big slap in your face for not making this start map as a regular map. Well done, but you could make it much better with enemies and some cool gameplay! Idea of cinema is awesome. I had a similar idea, but in mine player enters huge old 50s TVs to select a map, anyway cinema is much better, so big + for that.
So... The Hackopolis... It's a nice map, cool remix, but doesn't fit the theme ;)
Pritchard: Very good map. I love usage of destructibles in it. Crates, exploding walls etc. Another good thing was texture choice, it built atmosphere very nice. You should try to set some thin fog, to give this "cold night" chill vibe to it. Anyway it's probably my favorite map from this pack and sorry you didn't got my modified models. Now I see what you meant, when you mentioned of a Shambler with fedora and suit. We can always fix this and you can release it as a separate map.
NewHouse: This map has nothing to do with Noir... but is good and well designed. It kinda reminds me of Bloughsburgh entry from the jam7. Simple clean brushwork, with little details, but quite complex map topology.
I had no problems with "fiends pit". I instantly recognized there is something wrong with this floor, so I slowly moved on the edge near the wall. No surprises. The "falling apart street" was a different story. First time I played this map, catapulted from the hole directly on top of the street and then earthquake started and I just died in lava - lesson learned. Another thing was this underground passage with a floor mixed with lava. It was annoying, especially when zombies woke up.
Nightmare was super hard, but after few retries I finally found a recipe how to finish it :)
Ionous: Concept is good, you should finish it. I haven't found the secret, but I saw vod of your stream, so now I know where it is :D
To sum it up... good job guys! I just have one conclusion:
We shouldn't make jams too often. It can drain energy and creativity too fast. Another thing is to announce a jam one month earlier, so people can schedule time for mapping.
Technical aspects should be ironed out early as well (so no rekt textures or anything like that).
So My Turn To Comment On The Jam.
What a smashing (hehe) map. I really liked the execution. I wish khreathor's model was available for the jam. Oh well. We'll just have to wait for his mod then make him some maps :)
I think you balanced this quite well, but it is worth mentioning: There is a danger with too many movement obstructing objects (breakables in this case) that gameplay will slow down. Also giving the player too much geometry to exploit the weak quake enemy "AI". I thought that this could have been an issue, particularly earlier in the map where there are cramped rooms.
Pretty amazing job man. Well done.
Lots of people have been saying that your map doesn't fit the theme. I sorta think it dips its toe in the theme then backs out. The execution of the map, like Pritchards was extremely well done. A huge map considering the time frame.
I know you've put a lot of effort into the map and it shows. I have a little feedback though. I felt like the pacing was a little off. There is foreshadowing with the eliminators? (flying enforcers) and the zombies, but then there aren't many encounters until the zombies awaken. I would have liked to have seen the zombies (maybe one or two from each group) awaken a little earlier and then maybe scale up in numbers later. I'm not sure.
Overall I loved the theme of your map, noir or not. I liked the contrast between the tech and the brickwork city.
I have one complaint, and it is a stylistic one, rather than anything important. I hate the entrance to your map. It was the same in your last map aswell. Something about it just really frustrates me. So, take that with a grain of salt :)
What can I say man, I want to play a full version of the map, the concept is great, and having you explain it in your playthrough really sold me as to how it could work when executed well. I didn't find the breakable secret because I tried breaking a couple of the black walls and they didn't break. I didn't notice any difference in the breakable one to make me think I could. I guess that is part and parcel of a rushed map.
So all in all, thanks guys. You created some really interesting "worlds", to the point where I want to know more about each of them. That should say something about what you were able to achieve.
I really like when people are able to tell a story through something so simple.
...very well executed b&w theme.
Black future is the absolute pearl here, awesome in oh so many ways. Been a long time since I experienced such tension in a Quake map.
Buried by Time and Dust - kinda nice, not very much to do, great sense of place.
One Ranger Two Boomsticks - definitely has its moments and does a good job of making you forget the funky taylor those space age gangsters use. Ogres charging through doors preceded by a mob of grunts are awesome.
Hackeropolis - brought back shivers of one of the absolute best Quake levels ever. Unfortunately, it crashed 4 times Quakespasm on me when I tried to Quicksave. Did not restart it the fifth time.
The start map is all kinds of awesome.
All in all, feels a bit like Painkiller: disjointed levels with brutal action and some tricky parts.
And I like it. Especially the start map, wandering into an old cinema felt so satisfying.
Pritchard - Most faithful to the theme. All of the breakable doors and boxes and windows really made it feel alive, and you captured the film noir essence very well.
Ionous - An interesting premise, I just wish there was some combat to go along. Breaking into an abandoned building was neat, but nothing but zombies and an axe to fight them off with, kind of ruined it for me.
Newhouse - Quite a large map for a jam, shows you worked hard on it. I managed to avoid the fiend pit the first time purely by luck, which had I fallen victim to I might not have been able to finish the map alive.
Shamblernaut - What.
The black and white color palette may have gotten stale after awhile, but the film noir theme is really unique, and I wouldn't mind seeing more it. It's nice to see new environments in Quake for a change, even if it doesn't always work. Good job everyone.
Yep, first finished Quake map! I've released a few maps for Cube 2 and Tesseract (Cube 3?) in the past but this was my first finished product for this game. I'd definitely say my experience working in that engine helped me a lot when figuring out what kind of quality I wanted, and although working with brushes is quite different, I don't think I'd want to go back to how those games do it...
I wouldn't mind coming back to this map and extending it if it's possible to include it in your mod release, although as time went on I began to include more and more AD entities (the elevator is something i'm quite proud of, and AD allowed me to turn what was a map hack into something more sensible), so you'd either have to borrow a fair bit from that mod or reimpliment it yourself for it to be compatible.
I totally get what you mean about the risks of my map. I think if I were to do it again I'd probably change the design of the double doors especially; it's too hard to get through them if only one or two sections are broken. I tried to hold off using them excessively for that reason, and having monsters target and destroy them (that's a pretty cool feature!) if they're in the way helps a lot with saving the player from having to axe their way through too much.
Personally I think the AI handled the smaller areas pretty well, the biggest issue being the grunts' tendency to run away rather than through the hole that gets broken in the wall in the office. I could have polished that up with a monsterjump to make them leap through when it breaks, but that probably would have been tricky to get right and I never tried. The area with the troughs turned out pretty well though, the biggest issue being that sometimes the monsters there trigger early if they spot you through a pixel or something...
I'm glad you liked it! I'm also glad that you actually saw the door being charged through, watching demos etc. a lot of people missed it as they didn't commit to that section of the warehouse and instead hung back as they finished the first set of enemies, which meant they didn't get to see the others arrive...
It's funny that i'm getting this feedback so much; that I captured the theme so well. I really wasn't expecting to, since aside from a few neo-noir films (Scarface, the newer one etc.) I don't actually know that much about the genre or what makes it tick. I guess I lucked out!
I'm definately going to make an different entrance to my map, this was just the temporary solution to be honest. Like iounous mentioned about it in his stream, it felt like it was kind of added during the last minutes.
About zombies, in a city center. There will be couple alive even first time visiting that area, but just in a shake of demonstrating couple mechanisms which I couldn't have as enough time as needed. Basically for this version there is 2 places where you can shoot part of the tech structure (ones that sparks so much, smoke or are even in flames). When those tech/pipe things explode those would kill so many zombies at once. It will be a bit technical part of the gameplay.. can you use the environment and be clever. It will need a lot of work.
I was thinking to demonstrate it by showing it in front of the player when player enters the city center first time.. zombie(s) wakes up, smoke+sparks coming from this specific brakable tech thing and kaboom. Player might wonder what happened first.. and maybe right after that just letting there be one of those things without any danger (just pure curiosity.. maybe I will try to shoot those things.. and then player experience the "Eureka" moment)
I keep that in mind, that's why it need some proper planing and designing from my side. No rush.
I want to make everything to work as expected, so you don't have to spend some extra work on this.
Running DarkP at 1920 is very choppy - which engine do you recommend?
Have you tried Quakespasm?
I made a 2nd DP install without the fancy textures and it works well now... mostly.
1. In the start map, the car poster to the right of the gas station (where there's the Diesel sign) flickers and disappears in the distance like it's sharing the same space with the wall brush behind it.
2. In NewHouse's map, the teleporter at the beginning doesn't work properly and sends you back in front of it. Please fix this for the updated version, I want to play this map with DP's superior lighting - speaking of, is it normal that I'm seeing some blueish lights in both DP and QS?
It is generally not a good idea to design a map for one specific engine. Keep that in mind for future releases. BTW, what happened to the music you wanted to use? Oh and don't worry, the latest DP build does support alpha masked textures.
Quakespasm 0.92, on the other hand, brings another issue: I have to load levels manually via a console command because entering the movie doesn't work.
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