|Posted by Baker on 2018/08/24 08:59:42|
|Quake began its life as the remarkable game that could do multiplayer. You could make a map:
1) It could single player
2) It could co-operative
3) It could deathmatch.
No game had such a feature! Quake became like DYNAMITE.
Enter The Age Of The No Penis Mapper
In 2018, most mappers are unaware of this heritage. Their penises fell off, unused and removed by evolution. "Use it or lose it" they say.
They have better tools than their forebearers, but less knowledge so are far less capable because knowledge is power.
CZG maps? They coop. Necros maps? They coop. Tronyn maps. They coop. Old maps: you guessed it -- from ancient oldies like A2D2 to Flecksp1 -- they all coop.
So yeah, your small fry penis --- it's just you and your inferior capabilities.
Your ancestors with lesser tools could do what you cannot. -- Deal with this undeniable truth.
So what their forebearers could do with ease, they cannot. They don't even know where to start.
How did this happen?
It started with the 1-engine Charlie.
The beginning of Quake illiteracy. Are you are a 1-engine Charlie?
So how did this happen? I'm not here to explain, that isn't how meritocracy works. We all have to earn what we know know ... should we deserve to do so.
/Although this post is beer enabled, it is what I think 24/7 about the deficient 3rd tier state of Quake today that pales compared to works of the past. In older times, every map co-oped like Sewage Devastation because works that didn't do so were viewed by the stuffy elite as 2nd tier and who wanted to be 2nd tier? Against my better judgment, I click submit.
You know, the first map I made was quite old-school enough that it has all three game modes, and I'm happy about that.
But then, for my WIP episode, I decided to go all experimental: choosing exclusive/branching/partially intertwined paths, which makes coop difficult to implement. I kind of hated making the sacrifice and making the maps SP/DM only, because I think like you: I want my coop! (Even if I have no-one to play with.)
Now that I think about it, I guess, if I went the extra mile, I could implement some sort of forced teleportations to ensure that all players are on the same path, or something. Maybe I'll try to patch the maps for the full episode to make the path gameplay work for coop.
Or To Be More Accurate
which makes coop difficult to implement.
Well, maybe not necessary difficult to implement, but I guess more of a hassle. Even if in an ideal world I want all maps to be coop, I guess since I don't have close friends to coop with, I couldn't be bothered to go through the effort of doing it.
But for some reason I did go the extra mile to implement dm (while still having no friends to play with). Hmm, I wonder why I did that. Maybe I just thought in my close-minded head, that I simply just can't implement coop in a branching path map, or something.
Sorry, kind of rambling writing here.
"i am drunk and upset more people aren't using mark v"
This Thread Will Be Closed At Some Point.
But it's getting left up for now because it's a fantastic insight into Baker's mindstate. Feel free to discuss for a while - if you can work out what on Earth to discuss......
1.> mix your beer with tomato juice and you wont have a headache in the morning.
2.> All maps are fun to play in any mode, with the right weapon balance.
3.> Coop kinda sucks, if you are playing stock quake AI.
4.> I have no idea what im talking about it's 5am...
Has it ever occurred to you pea brain that some people don't care about coop and deathmatch in SP maps?
I don't have enough friends to play coop with :C
Thanks for the reminder tbh
You don't need friends for co-op. None of my friends play Quake or any video games for that matter. I've been asking around for a while for people who wanted to do AD co-op or even regular co-op but only one person has taken me up on it so far.
The latest Q1SP release has coop and DM support: http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61620
This means this thread has succeeded and can now be closed.
I have a friend who likes Quake but doesn't play custom maps except for when I ask him to test mine. We only co-op console games however. Our go-to is Halo: Reach Firefight mode with player speed turned way up and gravity turned way down.
Is there more to supporting co-op than putting in co-op starts and making sure there aren't any changing brushes that would block players from returning from start? I imagine in some cases ammo distribution might be an issue.
i feel like there are threads every few years where people say "you guys forgot about co-op!"
I agree with them, so glad we're talking about it again.
Is there more to supporting co-op than putting in co-op starts and making sure there aren't any changing brushes that would block players from returning from start?
Anything the mapper can think off, as long as a coop only switch can be added, which is not hard if placing the coop starts where the first player cannot reach. Most common feature is to add some ways to get fast into the action after dying.
And we might see more consideration for co-op.
Or at least some way of saving co-op progress for MP, some of these maps are long as shit!
I also remember coop enables a different way to play a map solo - you respawn at the start but ofc whatever you have killed so far stays dead, and weapon pickups respawn/persist (but not ammo? I forget)
It allows an alternative to spastically hammering the quicksave shortcut as a coping technique for the combat challenged
Would There Be Ppl Interested Of Coop Ep?
Sounds like a good theme for a map jam! Actually, I've been playing around with a few coop only ideas in my head, but haven't got around to mapping them yet.
Map jams don't really suit my mapping style, though, so I wouldn't participate.
As A Kid, I Always Played Coop, By Myself And With Others
I think I had the keyboard keys memorized that navigated to the page where you select the level to play coop.
Also, didn't the game used to ask funny questions when you quit? What happened to that?
All my maps are made for coop as any map should. Some features that I've used that could be interesting for a jam:
•Trapping both sets of players initially in two different prison cells (Limbo 2), where you have to rely on your friend(s) in the other area to let you out by shooting a somewhat hidden button. (Had a crusher trap in case you only had 2 players that ended up on the same side.)
•Shifting teleport destination. At the beginning of Terracity I had a teleporter that changed destination as the map progressed to save some time walking back from the spawn.
•Exposing alternate paths as the level progresses. For truly good examples of this, see sock maps.
•Exposing more weapons at the start. I had cages that opened at the start of Terracity after each weapon was found "in the wild" so if you died you could grab them all again before teleporting back into the action.
•Double pressure plates requiring two people to stand on at once. Basically just well spaced buttons that reset doors in front of a hidden trap shooter too quickly for one player to activate both at once.
I started mapping specifically because me and my sisters loved playing coop so much that I made my own levels for us/them to play. They were my guinea pigs and my customers. I love the idea of a coop jam. AD has great features for this if we do it at some point.
Uncoopable maps are by handicapped authors who don't have enough diversity to do what every 1997 map author could do.
When the newest uncoopable map is released, I am only reminded that they don't have the same level of talent as the people who made Insomnia, Travail, Soul of Evil, or Warpspasm. Yet they had greater tools to perform their obviously lessor works.
And it's true!
You may find what I have to say as unpleasant to current crop of incapable mappers, but nevertheless everyone agrees with it. Not even those that hate this thread are disputing it, which means it is a "true fact".
Current map authors using greater tools are unable to do what previous map authors could do (i.e. you are not a metlslime, czg, necros, tronyn, distrans). They have better tools but their skill level is unable to maximize the value unlike those that came before them due to them not knowing enough about Quake.
True fact! And despite those who would object, none of them dispute it.
My only goal is knowledge, therefore although winning the argument, I think I have failed.
But only in the short term ... I think there is a "lost chapters", but for a future time ,,,
And perhaps this future time knows something obvious even today ... but who knows! Exactly! Right?
/Lets go! Submit!
A Cooperative Episode Would Be Most Gnarly,my Dudes
We could make Gunter put it on his fvf server so we could faff about the maps looking for exploits. Also if there was some iteration of a cooperative server where new releases could be uploaded to to play on perhaps more maps would come with cooperative mode in mind so the creators can watch us get lost and die embarrassing deaths in real time.
My only goal is knowledge
Knowledge? Well, you're only succeeding in offending people. If you are just looking to pass on your vast store of wisdom on game design then why the incendiary language and insults?
I don't get it.
So The Take Away Is Map With Old Obsolete Tools
gotcha, on it.
I never play coop. What are the requirements to convert a sp to coop-compatible?
add 4 coop spawns
You're a fucking buffoon who should probably lay off the booze. That's bad for both your health and our collective sanity. If you're so nostalgic of coop maps, why don't you make them yourselves?
The fact that some people even indulge you here is utterly baffling to me. Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.
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