Skill 2 Demo
Gonna Have To Stream This
I don't know when but I will add this to my map rotation and let you know what I think. Thanks for the new release!
Lighting, skybox and fog all look well-balanced and atmospheric. Map history sounds cool as well. Looking forward to checking this out when I get some time.
Skill 2 Demo. 178/200 Enemies, 2/12 Secrets, Zero Deaths Baby.
Really good map. plenty of ammo to rebalance with the monster numbers, though i did end up wasting quite alot of nails one time. Still enjoyed it to the end.
Sadly, I suck at finding secret, so no luck there.
Also, really interesting that you've put teleporters down the bottomless pits. Not saying whether it makes it easier or not, just an interesting choice.
Very... round 8) Felt a little short. Just started to get used to spawns behind every corner and it was all over.
Couldn't explore the pits properly, because I expected to only find death there(yes, even after seeing spawn teleporting out of it) and it is inconvenient to start new demo after every load or explore a lot "off-screen".
I didn't understand the ending. Maybe I messed up the route, but after exit was already available I still found monsters everywhere I went.
Only found 7/12 secrets, but I liked it. Looks and plays nicely.
Neat. Missed a couple probably blatantly obvious secrets, wanted to try to break the map a bit with some explosive jumping but ended up not having enough health to do so. The 'dying star' made of rotated flame models is most excellent. Skill 2 demo, 25:30, 5/12 secrets, 198/200 kills
productive as fuck!
Big Improvement Over Shamsp1!
Great to see another map already, especially as you've already made a large improvement over it with this release.
Had lots of fun on skill 2 this time. Only managed to find 5 secrets, including the secret within a secret. Think I killed most of the enemies.
My only major criticism of this map is that there were a lot of places where the monsters couldn't effectively fight the player. The shamblers at the end were a particularly notable example, and I don't know what all those spawn appeared for, since they all just teleported in, then jumped into the abyss, never to be seen again.
Here's my demo: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CHvtnS-Mwl03ekI3Hb4iLmTA0KvFTqT6
Skill 2 demo in two parts--I died once at the final battle, the spawns got me. Luckily I don't always mind spawns, they were used well here. I cheated and caught myself with noclip once when falling into a bit, but as I found out later I probably didn't need to.
Goods combats reuse of space, I had fun. Missed all but one secret, but that's not uncommon for me.
I recorded a demo... I thought.
Anyway will post 2nd play demo soon.
missed GL first play through somehow, died quickly!
on 2nd playthrough found 4 secrets (and rl'd to red armour), including secret in secret. 200 kills. had a lot of fun with it, though did play cheaply at times taking advantage of some of the monster placement Than gently derides above. Disagree re spawn though, had some solid and fun encounters with them.
A few replies:
Secrets may be tough. I had a stupid amount of fun placing them and might have got a bit carried away. In part it's designed for post-combat longetivity and exploration.
The pits. I wanted the vibe of them, but didn't want the frustration of instant death, so they're a compromise.
Depending on the route you take back after the silver key, and where you aim in the final arena, there might be a few monsters left.
Than: I know some monsters are less effective but usually that's deliberate, I'm using them for some other effect, either scares or catching careless players. Any monsters spawning facing away from an area are to "block" the area without actually locking the player in, or punish them for panicked retreating (khreathor backed into the post-gk shambler which was fun). The zombies below the pillar structure are partly for aesthetics and partly for lots of gibbing fun. The fiend below the sk is ineffective but I decided that combat was riotous enough without anything better. There aren't many spawn that spawn and jump in the abyss afaik?? The shamblers at the end, I liked them there for dramatic effect but I know it's a bit of a lame fight. I did consider swapping them and the vores (would be too brutal) or monster_jumping them (possibly too punishing for 90% of players who have already used all their nails on small groups of knights or other easily DBS-able monsters), but decided against it.
Now You Are Just Showing Off!!
Skill 1 Partial Demo
Skill 1 demo of about 80% through. It cut off when I died, but after that things wrapped up pretty easily:
As far as I remember, final secrets were 5/12, kills were 164/172 (figured they were all zombies)
The aesthetic was really strong, and the phong shader on the curved brushes was lovely. Might have to try that with my next map :)
Only comment is that the shambler fight at the end was awkward. As far as I could tell, the choices were A) facetank a bunch of shambler damage and hope the shalraths don't see you, or B) strafe off to the side, kill one of the shalraths, and then tediously kill off the shamblers with a sliver of an angle into viewing them at medium-long distance. I guess there's also the option to run straight up and go for the exit without killing them?
Solid map though, plenty more notes in the demo!
That fight is a bit lame, I know. I didn;t know what to change it to tho. IF people save nails (as I always do when I sniff there might be a final battle), it's less tedious.
Another fun one, GJ. There's something about the layouts in your maps so far that are a little bit of a throwback but in a nice way -- not a super-space-efficient puzzlebox, but still good interconnection and it's not just naive hall-room-hall stuff. I likes it.
I think I found 5 of the secrets just organically and they were fun and varied... didn't do any special hunting for the rest.
The one criticism I'd pass on is that I encountered too many "untriggered" monsters I think. It can be fun to ambush monsters but sometimes the untriggered-ness seems awkward, like if they're facing you but a bit too far away. One particular instance of that was one of the vores in the last fight.
(I always enjoy finding untriggered spawns tho.)
Cheers, Moar Comments:
In reverse order:
Johnny: Yes actually having a proper layout, interconnectivity and even some 3D design was a big aim this time after Shamsp1 ;). No aims for space efficiency though... Some of the untriggered monsters are deliberate as I wrote above: Those vores are mostly to block the exits of the final room - I don't want to block the player in but I don't want them to have an easy escape either. If they were facing the player and/or triggered, that area would be a nightmare of trying to avoid two angles of voreballs with on a shallow space to hide in by the altar.
Mclong: It might be quite good that I waited until the existence of phong before making this map...
Spud: Glad you liked the star, several other people did too. I wondered if it might be a bit of an obvious gimmick but apparently not. I needed something interesting to put in that final box room and the miniature sun came to me in a daydream. Took a lot of dicking around with angles but I'm pleased with it.
DeeDoubleU: it might take longer if you hunt for secrets. I'm happy with maps being short, it's one of my aims, to make small-medium-sized maps.
Tronyn: Yeah if I have any mapping talent it might be choosing skybox + fog combos ;)
This was a lot of fun. Here's a demo:
Loved the rounded edges, clean lines and the map's layout. Make more like this!
Pretty Cool Map!
I love the architecture with all these rounded corners everywhere - the map might otherwise have looked a bit blocky without them. Not very egyptian but original. Nice final set piece as well. I found the lighting to be quite odd: your flames don't flicker but the buttons do (dafuq?), and there is this one flame that... pulsates?! (double-dafuq?)
Skill 2 combat is decent if a bit on the easy (or easily cheatable) side at times, but I much prefer this than having to spam F6/F9. Some cool surprises and ambushes, and nice secrets aplenty (3 were too hard for me). One bug report: some ammo boxes oddly didn't fall to the floor when released but stayed in their original position (see demo). And one last pet peeve: no music, grrrr! This would've been the perfect opportunity to include a cool middle-eastern track.
. Skill 2 demos
, 120/120 kills, 9/12 secrets. I didn't die but finished the playthrough with only 8/12 secrets, so I quicksaved, exited the map and reloaded my save to do some secret-hunting, hence 2 demos. Haven't spent too much time on it though (found only one more then quit), so that 2nd demo is quite short.
Hard to believe this is a second map, I think its quality surpasses many old made maps by experienced mappers. Very clean design, nice layout and combat.
Here's a 24 min demo:
*old maps made
Thanks For The Kind Words, And More Replies:
Mugwump: Yup blockiness and curves was the plan. You're right maybe I should have had the flames flickering overall, I didn't think of that. If one flame happens to pulse, there might be a reason for that. The switches pulsing were to draw attention to them. The ammo boxes at the end, they had to be placed above zombies, I don't know why they didn't drop down!
Yoder: Insetting or lipping trim would have been a bit of a pain mapping wise, I thought the effect was strong enough. The detail under the stairs was really easy to do, I needed something vaguely aesthetic under there.
DeedoubleU: Man you don't like using explosive weapons. Did you have an accident with fireworks when you were a kid?? ;). The mis-placed vore at the end had got lured out of position by an Ogre you later killed.
Than: No idea how that spawn in the final arena got triggered to jump in the void, he doesn't usually wake up. You seemed to have fun with the ones under the stairs though... As with many people, the scrags guarding the SNG proved thought-provoking, I like that.
It's the same as with nails - I tend to save rockets for special occasions.
Or did you mean I should have RJ to red armor?
No No, RA Is A Normal Secret...
Clips And Maybe Triggers
I loved the map. The aesthetic was great and it never was too unfair as to stop being fun. I haven't found many secrets but those I have are well hidden and fun to hunt for. The only problem I have is that some details really need to be clipped (the torch hoops on the walls and pillars) and it SEEMED like I was activating triggers through walls and doors (is that intentional?). Otherwise like I said, the map is great. Keep up the good work.
An Excellent Second Map
I've been meaning to get to this for a long time. I knew I had to play it after seeing the screenshots. It seemed so much more intricate than your first map and that really did end up being the case.
I thought that it was a pretty good looking map with an excellent layout. The way that you preview certain areas through cracks in the wall or through windows was really good, and it's something that I've been paying more attention to as I learn what it means to make a good map. This was also really fun in terms of combat, which is a tough thing to achieve in id1 in my opinion. Things picked up once I got the super nailgun and they really picked up once I got the rocket launcher.
I noticed a lot of curves in the brush work from the stairs to the hieroglyphics on the walls. That single design decision made for an interesting landscape overall. The "dying sun" that was visible through one crack and again at the end looked awesome. That was a damn creative use of flames.
My favorite part was when things ramp up and the bridge breaks beneath you. It felt frantic but never overwhelming. You really knocked it out of the park with the combat. I especially liked gibbing huge groups of zombies in certain parts, like the area with the four coffins and lift below the red armor.
I can't believe that I only found 1/12 secrets. Only 184/200 monsters as well. Anyways, I hope that you can pull off combat this fun again going forward. You introduced the weapons at just the right time to keep things fun without being too easy.
Coconut: Not sure about triggers? There are a couple of possible bugs with wakening monsters too early. Clipping, aye maybe I could have done that, although the torches are mostly above head height and the pillars are rounded off. If a player is bunnyhopping like a loon it might be an issue.
Poorchop: Thanks for your kind comments! Glad you liked some of the casual gibbage - sometimes I do that for effect / fun rather than hardcore combat.
Done A Playthrough Thing:
The Shambler Brand Map...
...has visual clues to all secrets. I found all 12 but not right away - and no rocket jumps required. Good exercise map for secret hunters.
Played skill 2 - got 200 kills. It is a compact combat dense map with available cover. I thought the choice to not kill players falling into the void but rather hit them with a small health tax was a clever balancing idea. I learned this after overusing the void as a monster dodge.
Exiting the start tunnel and seeing the sun warmed architecture reminded me of the Egyptian themed maps in the Talos Principle.
Nice work and good fun.
Cheers Scraggy :)
Great map. Although I prefer sp1 overall. I finally got to the actual released version and it's fantastic.
If one flame happens to pulse, there might be a reason for that.
Heh yeah, I saw that watching your playthrough. Dumbass me, I should have realized it... The other secrets I should've been able to find them on my own, too. Good ones.
I Like It
Played it right after your 1st map and I like it. Especially the texture set and the nice round architectures.
What I dont like are monsters that get thrown in from nowhere. People call it teleporting. It gets old when it is overused. I prefer when they are there from the beginning but that is a personal taste.
Glad you like the style :)
Teleporting monsters are pretty much a standard in Quake?? I've had a few testers / players say there are actually too many monsters already lying in wait and I should be using the teleporting-in function more. Actually, like you, I prefer having as many monsters as possible already in the map (possibly partly due to being lazy and getting bored setting up the teleports!), but there's only so much you can do with that, especially revisiting areas.
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