#1 posted by JneeraZ
on 2008/03/22 12:08:34
This sounds fun. What constitutes a remix? Are we expected to add a bunch of new play area? Add decorations to the existing map?
I guess I don't know the requirements here. I'm interested in taking part though.
#2 posted by rj
on 2008/03/22 12:30:40
ach. i have enough mapping to do already but this is tempting...
i'd have chosen e1m4 first as well :(
*thinks about it*
I Don't See The Reason For This:
#3 posted by bear on 2008/03/22 13:20:49
You cant take first episode E1M*maps though (because Kell is doing them).
Oh noooo it would be soooooooo terrible if there were multiple remixes of the same map.... would only be interesting to see multiple takes on the same map.
Thinking About It..
#4 posted by rj
on 2008/03/22 13:48:52
..i've just have a brief wonder about the rest of quake looking for inspiration and like the idea of e1 maps not being allowed.. basically because they're the ones everyone already knows inside out, and also because it's probably the neatest designed episode in the pack, thus would benefit the least from a remake. sizewise the maps are probably the smallest too (8 excluded) and would offer the least playtime.
i'd especially like to see remakes of the later e4 maps, they should be pretty easy to add detail to and have some really large open areas that alot could be done with.
other maps that would work well:
the wind tunnels - lots of large rooms that could be decked out to look spectacular
the wizard's manse - has a great interconnecting layout & a potentially impressive frontpiece to boot
the dismal oubliette - probably the longest level in the whole game that would make the most complete single-map experience
the underearth - great atmosphere & tidy design that shouldn't be too hard to work with
satan's dark delight - i'd love to see someone's take on the room with the floaty platforms
hope there's some inspiration there for people. also i think the deadline is a little tight personally, but i'll wait to see what others have to say about it.
#5 posted by than
on 2008/03/22 14:04:43
I was wondering when someone was going to start a remix project. I am a bit busy myself so will not be taking part, but I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
the E4 maps are the most in need of remaking, being by far the ugliest in the game, but also have interesting gameplay and abstract themes so would probably be fun to remake.
On another note, I want to do sp remixes of all the DM levels at some point, so maybe we should do a DM level SP remix pack at some point in the future (definitely not concurrently with this one!). I did DM3 already and was working on DM1 a little while ago, though I became a bit busy at work and stopped. Also, I remember distrans or someone mentioning something about a DM2 remake, which is the other obvious candidate for a nice SP remake along with DM3.
#6 posted by rj
on 2008/03/22 14:08:49
if any of them turn out half as decent as dm3rmx then that would be splendiverous. although dm6 could prove difficult to expand on
#7 posted by JneeraZ
on 2008/03/22 14:44:40
OK, I'll take E3M4 (Satan's Dark Delight) if it's available. I've always liked that level but thought it was a little drab.
So, again, what are the rules here? Are we just dressing the place up? Does the core gameplay have to remain intact and you just make the experience look cooler? What engine limits are we concerned with? Does it have to run in software quake (aka r_speeds <= 800)?
#8 posted by Spirit
on 2008/03/22 15:06:40
e2m1 = mine
Ok I'm Giving..
#9 posted by rj
on 2008/03/22 15:32:26
e2m5 a shot 8)
#10 posted by ijed
on 2008/03/22 16:17:19
There is a remake project.
I have map e3m1-e3m7 in beta with their own progs dat and all made from scratch (not built from the originals).
The changes in the progs dat are mostly AI but with a chainsaaw replacing the axe (because it's shit).
I go on holiday for a month in May so won't be able to have all the maps ready by June, at least not how I'd want.
They'll run fine on id1 - the changes are fairly cosmetic, as I say. Not too bothered if others make maps from e3, but if this is going to be a 'full' remake (ie. the entire game) then its possible to package everything together when finished, finally including a start map and shub's pit.
My original idea was to make each episode and have the episode's not built blocked off by the shareware barriers saying something like 'under construction'.
But I prefer to go at my own pace - seven maps is alot, and I want them to be good. Already I think I've superceeded Warp Spasm.
#11 posted by Zwiffle
on 2008/03/22 16:43:46
Willem, I was gonna take Satan's Dark Delight! NoooooooooOOO!!!!!!~
Are only id maps allowed or can we do remakes of custom maps? Not that it matters, I'll attempt an E4 map most likely anyway.
Count Me In
#12 posted by HeadThump
on 2008/03/22 16:46:07
I feel I have at least one more version of Underurth in me, and if it isn't taken by someone already, that be my baby
#13 posted by rj
on 2008/03/22 17:40:03
Please state what map you are going to make. No more than two people on the same map please
you can still bag it :p
although i'd prefer as many dif maps as possible
#14 posted by Shambler
on 2008/03/22 18:18:33
Good idea, I've really liked E1M1 and E1M2 rmx. Good luck to all involved.
#15 posted by Zwiffle
on 2008/03/22 20:35:16
I think I will "officially" nab up Azure Agony (E4M7) for my remixing pleasure.
Now, another thing - are these maps intended to be stand alone maps, or are the intended to be played at there particular point in the episode? I would think they should be considered stand alone maps, but maybe others had the other idea. Just wanted some clarification.
Man, This Is Tempting
#16 posted by Lunaran
on 2008/03/22 20:44:07
but I know I won't work on it. can't abandon seven projects for an eighth. :/
The Crypt of Decay seems like it would be awesome fun, though. although my last quake map also had a big tower with extendable bridges ...
#17 posted by JneeraZ
on 2008/03/22 20:45:15
Yeah, I was wondering that as well. Because starting E3M4 with the shotgun and axe kinda sucks. :)
#18 posted by Trinca
on 2008/03/22 21:07:54
ok e2m2 for me
"the ogre citatel"
#19 posted by JneeraZ
on 2008/03/22 21:59:34
This is fun! I've never worked on a remix before. Can we add secrets and things? What is allowed in a remix and what isn't?
#20 posted by Zwiffle
on 2008/03/22 22:42:20
I'd assume anything that doesn't completely modify the map so that it's unrecognizable from it's original incarnation is banned. If you look at e1m1rmx and e1m2quoth you'd see that, while there are some layout changes, additional areas/secrets, the maps are still recognizable. So I would assume that you can add secrets/things, change some of the layout etc as long as the map can be identified as a remake of the source.
/end pedantic rant
#21 posted by gb on 2008/03/22 23:20:56
I am doing a Quoth 2 remake of episode 1. For a while this was the counterpart of Ijed's episode 3. He chose to drop Quoth along the way, and he's more experienced so he's way ahead. I actually started last year but made practically all the mistakes that were possible to make. It's getting off the ground though. The style is very different from Kell's and it is planned from the ground up as a coherent episode.
It's fine with me if anyone else does other interpretations of the original maps though. It'll just add fun to compare the different mappers' interpretations. Believe me, the maps will be different enough. I had my fun seeing Kell's map, and just how different they can be.
It's not really smart to use the GPL maps as a base, that's what I originally tried and I failed horribly. They are just full of problems.
I am straying rather far from the original maps, like Ijed, so I don't think several attempts at the same maps will be any problem.
I'll go by my own pace, too. Just letting you guys know.
And if you'll take my input, any map should be playable on its own (shotgun start.)
Yep, There Are
#22 posted by HeadThump
on 2008/03/23 02:51:57
a lot of entity bugs in the GPL source maps. I recommend if you have a map with more that a few easy to correct bug to take the GPL version wipe the entities from your map pile, decompile the original game .bsp with bspc, take the resulting .map file and copy the entities and paste into the .map file you are using. If you have never decompiled a map, you'll see why you need to take the extra step because the brush work in the decompiled map is almost unuseable, the entities however are usually sound.
#23 posted by Spirit on 2008/03/23 10:41:45
I should add that my e2m1 will be mostly a style/texture/atmosphere change (no base!) so it isn't a "proper" remix. Thus it should be fine if anyone else does a remix of it too.
Btw: No Quoth? :(
#24 posted by negke
on 2008/03/23 10:44:15
The variety of maps to choose from feels inappropriate for a compo, though. How would you judge them? I would've prefered the theme to be about the DM maps only (a limited set), so the results could more easily be compared. And they're small enough to serve as a reasonable base for a compo, unlike (some of) the original maps which, albeit being around medium-sized overall, are still too large to be worked with in such a context. We'll probably only end up with a much of mediocre remixes (though they could be used as a base for further versions because of the GPL of course).
#25 posted by JneeraZ
on 2008/03/23 16:26:14
What I'm finding amusing is the number of brush errors I'm finding n E3M4. Some of those lava pits have incomplete floors which lead to empty chamber below so the engine is drawing a load of junk it doesn't need to in certain views. Kinda funny to see the mistakes that pros can make. :)
So I'm not only remixing, I'm optimizing and fixing.
My remix is mainly going to be a visual overhaul with some considerations given to gameplay flow. Some useless areas will be eliminated, etc. I might add a secret or two as well.