speedmaps very much and I think others do, too. Even if the maps often are short, many of them are great fun and offer a lot of good ideas.

I think the current mix of SP/DM is good and in any case the important thing is that the mappers themselves have fun creating the maps. 

sm84 is done, but it looks like spawnpoint is down atm. so possibly it'll be released later today I guess. :( 

to sm84, maybe? Seems like several hosts have problems now ... 

pack up now, see news
http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=19795 

I generally don't enjoy playing them. But then I don't even like SPQ that much unless its done really well, so whatever. As I said above I find them 'interesting' and 'worth a look' (I say this as a level designer) but ultimately they're of no use to me as a player.

On the other hand some of the DM speedmaps are useful to me as a player because the good ones can at the very least provide some good gameplay for 10 minutes. 

In my opinion, that's exactly what the better SP speedmaps provide -- good gameplay for 10 minutes. So i guess i was trying to get at what you thought made SP speedmaps bad. Visuals, gameplay, length, storyline -- what is lacking? 

So i guess i was trying to get at what you thought made SP speedmaps bad. Visuals, gameplay, length, storyline -- what is lacking?


Just overall quality in all areas, FFS it's not exactly rocket science to work that out. 

Dunno, I didn't analyse it that much... all of the above?

Take sm84 for instance... I loaded the SP levels and played them for between 1 and 10 seconds (each) before quitting because they were such absolute shit. Mappers who participated in this pack, don't get all pissy, its just my opinion... and I couldn't do any better in an hour!

Perhaps I just haven't seen the 'better' sp speedmaps. I don't download them all, I tend to just download the packs occasionally when I see them posted here. At a guess I have downloaded 10 to 15 speedmap packs in total (that's not a lot considering they're up to 84). 

Mine was absolute shit on purpose :) 

I also just wanted to point out that to most experienced Quake players, an all-out, months of work, detailed SP level usually takes around 9-11 minutes. Other times it's usually less. A single-player speedmap will not last that long, it will last maybe around 2-3 minutes. However, if you find a good replay value in a deathmatch speedmap, as the gameplay originates not from monster placement and a good, maybe puzzling layout, but from the map allowing for strategy to be used in a few people jumping around killing each other. Because the person setting up a server defines a timelimit, 10 minutes being a good one, the fun lasts until somebody gets tired of it. But there is no way that a single-player speedmap will last anymore than 2 minutes, unless you stop along every 4 feet and admire the architecture while killing your enemies. Especially the good speedmaps, as there can exist some incredible attention to detail, but doing so will significantly decrease gameplay time, as detail does take a long time.

All in all, it is being analyzed way too much here. As I said before, if the person wants to do it, then they do it. And if somebody makes a SP map, and somebody like Fribbles says he doesn't like it, then he has right to not like it. What does it matter? Will it really change the right of a person participating in a speedmapping session to make a single-player map? No. Mr. Fribbles saying he does not enjoy playing SP speedmaps does absolutely nothing to anybody, it is just what he thinks. And saying that it would be a good idea to simply make DM maps for the people who play the packs, that is just something to think about. In the end, there is no point in analyzing what he thinks, because whenever somebody thinks anything, there's a big chance it's going to somehow conflict with what you are going to think. 

I gave it my all, actually. 

...done better, but I crapped out w/15 minutes left in the time and didn't bother checking for some glaring errors...

I'm still happy with what I produced in <75 minutes.

(I'm also too lazy to log into func) 

RPG now runs a small custom map server off his cable connection which is decent enough for some 4-5 player matchs, and I'm sure whenever he's around for speedmapping he'd be willing to host maps for a few rounds.

Scampie speaks the truth. I would like to have more DM-themed events where we play the maps afterwards. That was fun.

And I have to agree that most SP speedmaps suck. Poorly balanced, buggy, frequently lacking innovation--there's just not much there to appreciate. I have to say, though, that I have seen several that look and play exactly like a small portion of a regular SP map, so kudos to those.

For the next SP speedmap I do, I plan to not bother with the visuals, and focus solely on creating an interesting gameplay experience. We'll see how it goes. 

so it must be the visuals. Thanks for the answer. 

for anyone interested, this week's map was a fave of mine becuase I had the most fun making it, laughing at how stupidly I could get things done. I hate when I have to work at mapping just so it can be fun for someone for 10 seconds. 

Like I said, your map reminded me greatly of my very first released map, and this is may sound pathetic, but Frik's lasts a lot longer.

I enjoyed playing this pack a lot because it made me laugh. I'm involved with a mod project right now, and there's a lot of pressure involved in creating really good maps that other people will be able to enjoy, good gameplay, as perfect as I can make it.

When something like this speedmap session comes along, fun as hell, it's a great way to remind yourself that a game is always about having fun. 

I hate when I have to work at mapping just so it can be fun for someone for 10 seconds.

But really, doesn't that accurately define just about every work of art in the world? Somebody works hard and intensely on this thing, that they completely devote themselves to, and it's so incredibly simple for somebody to look at it for a few seconds, which most people do with art, and dismiss it with "It's not good enough, do better." There will be the few who look into what they see, really focus on it and see the work and heart that was put into it, but how rare are those people? They hardly exist. No matter what the medium, no matter how hard you work, somebody will (maybe) enjoy it for a small portion of their life, and then odds are they will forget about it.

So if you're worrying that somebody will enjoy something you create for a small fraction of time, you should realize how lucky you are that they will even actually enjoy it for that amount of time. 

You have arrived at the truth. However, the flip side of it is this -- once you realize that no one is really paying attention, you can get away with anything. 

That's the advantage. With said realization, you can have a whole lot of fun in life. >:D 

Of course, you know there are better ways to say you don't like something other than "All your SP maps suck!"

Usually saying that something sucks is a surefire way to make someone upset. Just my experience. 

Saying that all the SP maps were SHIT, and then telling everyone to not get pissed because it's your opinion is a pretty ignorant thing to do.

You suck shit man, but don't worry, because that's just my opinion. Ask yourself: Do you really feel any less offended because I said it was only my opinion? 

You suck shit man, but don't worry, because that's just my opinion. Ask yourself: Do you really feel any less offended because I said it was only my opinion?

I'm not particularly offended either way. In any case, its obviously just your opinion whether you explicitly state as much or not... I mean unless you can produce convincing documentary evidence that I do, in actual fact, suck shit, then it can't be presented as fact. Even if it were, am I supposed to really give a shit? I'm sorry man, but I don't give a flying fuck what you think! :D

So no, what some random gumby says to me on an internet message board is not going to affect me very much. If it affects you then you need to grow a thicker skin, or get the fuck off the internet. I may not be very tactful but you'll get a lot worse on the net than what you'll get from me, so you better fucking get over yourself and learn not to put too much stock in other people's opinions or else you're going to be offended at every turn. 

this thread is now about how much wyldesnake likes the suck other men's penises. please give your opinion on the matter. 

 

Well...I didn't mean it...shoulda put a disclaimer with it. Apparently it did bother you though, or you woudln't have said all those mean things in response to my mean thing.