On my second playthrough I got out the flashlight and started abusing one of the cameras. After a few hits I managed to knock it down. Later I got to the security room and when I selected the associated camera it had really moved with the model. Except the portal was a few units below the model and so was actually in the floor. VISing no long applied of course and frame rate took a hit until I changed to another camera. 

very short

Have you been giving yourself a crack enema AGAIN?? WTF are you talking about, very short my arse, it's the longest FPS game I've played since, I dunno HL probably. I can't see how you could possibly make it short given how many places you have to explore....FFS the only other comments I've seen about the lengths are that it is LONG. You must be a freak - well, okay, I could have completed it in a weekend too if I'd played from like 10 - midnight both days...

Then again maybe you ARE a freak and your eyes are supernaturally adjusted to the dark as evidenced in your maps and you can see through time and space to progress ultra-rapidly or something... 

Productive and useful, as always. No, I played it about 3-5 hours per day, not 14 hours as you suggest (at least I assume you mean 10:00 AM to 12:00 AM), starting on Friday and finishing on Sunday. PCGamer (USA version) said the same thing about it being short if I recall. Yes, I played on Veteran, and yes I explored as well. Maybe it's just because you and I have different ideals of what's long and short (that's a penis joke about you, Shambler, in case you didn't get the subtlety.)

But in any case, most games in general seem to be short to me. Its as if right when it begins to be interesting the game ends. There are some games that I think had a good length; Silent Hill 3, for example, but I won't go into that.

In short, pun intended, the game just didn't leave me satisfied and I thought there would be more game.

And yes, my eyes ARE adjusted to the dark. 

Is anywhere from 9-15 hours...That sounds about right for D3. Any rate, that's the longest SP story-driven FPS I've played in a while either. I think I got about 12 hours in it.

Something that I think we're over-looking is that the story and environment, and overall 'hook' of the game, was good enough to keep us playing until the end. I know there have been other SP FPS offerings that lasted longer, but to be honest, I couldn't have been arsed to sit through the last half. Something about the 15th Egyptian locale I've been through, I just got sick of it and lost interest. 

Well I thought it was pretty long, well at least not to short, but hey, I wouldn't have minded if it was longer. At least it was longer than Unreal Poo, I mean Unreal 2, that was about 6 hours, and rancid crap from start to finnish. (I only finnished UPoo for the sake of completion) 

ZWiffle, you are bonkers. Please, the next time you play something that has demo-recording ability (Doom3 / Quake custom map, for example), could you record a demo of yourself doing so - I'd be interested to see how you manage to play so fast. I'm guessing it's being very skilled, but even so just progressing through new levels surely takes time.


Wildsnoke, I agree with the last point, definitely kept me hooked the whole way - which was how I was feeling it was both LONG but still interesting. 

I will do that with Quake 4, which is supposed to come out pretty soon from what I hear. PCGamer has 10 page preview next issue, so that should be cool. 

WTF happened to the night vision goggles? Doom 3 is practically the darkest game I've ever played and all we got was a poxy torch. 

...just wanna say, if it wasn't obvious already, I thought DOOM3 was great. Really immersive, really gave the feel of being in an isolated and now-rather-fucked-up outpost, good gfx, decent gameplay, great monsters, just a good feel overall.

It's been quite exciting playing it now, when all the hype and stuff is still around =).

w3rd. 

(I originally intended to post this in the D3 DM thread, but thought this was off-topic to that discussion, so I posted it here instead.)

Maj: What about Quake 2 did I forget?

Nonentity: I didn't mean that my personal preference of gameplay should be the end-all decision of what to make; I merely wanted to make it clear that SP should be a larger part of the D3 mapping community than DM because of the focus of D3. By all means, make as many DM maps as you want, or exclusively DM as far as I care.

But, the focus of D3 was SP and as far as I'm concerned I will play nothing but SP, simply because it's the intention behind the design and the effort of the design was concentrated almost in this area exclusively. To waste (guestimating) 90% of the effort of id for generic DM seems ... Well, to put in different terms: To utilize 90% of id's material and design seems far more practical. 

That Q2 was intended for single player too, with the multiplayer pretty much an afterthought. So extrapolating your comment, all those Q2 maps are "useless". 

No, not really. Q2 was intended for Single Player, but not nearly as much as Doom3 was. Q2SP was just an attempt to make-up the poor Quake single player that many fans griped about. In Q2, I'd guesstimate about 65-70% was made for SP, possibly less. Quake was obviously built with a balanced, fast DM in mind, with some cool monsters thrown in to make it SP. Q2, well, it also has a balanced DM in mind, but with a little more thought added to the SP. 

I was pretty sure q1 was built sp first and then MP. 

I'm pretty sure it's the reverse. qtest shipped with dm1-3 in almost final states what... 7 months before retail? 

I read in an interview w/ someone at id that Quake 1 was who-could-make-the-best-DM-map, then strung along with an improvised story. 

I'm not sure you can claim a game that didn't even ship with DM maps was more DM focussed than D3.

(The Q2DMx maps came in a later patch) 

Both SP and DM. 

I never claimed that Q2 was more DM focused than SP focused. 

Regarding Q2, I agree with Shambler. The DM might have seemed slow to some, but I enjoyed it a lot. Haven't managed to get anyone to play Doom 3 MP at work, although I haven't actually asked since I've been playing coop Vietcong almost every day for the past four months or so :)

It's a real shame that there is no coop in Doom 3. It's id's first SP game without coop since Wolf3d, and that didn't even have networking. A lot of companies seem to overlook coop because they are intent on creating a scripted, linear and effects heavy SP experience that would normally break as soon as there are multiple players running around. It is actually quite surprising how many people want coop mode though. Halo is an example of a game where players tended to play it solo, then drag mates round to play coop, although I know a few people who have only bothered to finish it in coop.

Why the hell only the XBox version of Doom 3 will have coop, I don't know. Perhaps just due to time contraints and id just wanting to get the game done. 

I believe D3 didn't have coop because of the strain on the connections. DM is doable, but at small numbers. Having coop maps with demons and zombies as well as players AND physics would destroy anything but a fiber-optic T-75 line.

I could be mistaken, but that's what I believe the problem is. 

You're doing an awful lot of "As Shambler said" and "I agree with Shambler" recently.

Are you okay?? Maybe book a doctor's appointment or something... 

I'm just trying to build your confidence enough to let me suck your cock.

Well, I just happen to agree with you on a lot of stuff. I didn't enjoy Doom 3 as much as you seemed to though. I started hankering for the end about halfway through Delta labs. 

...to sucks his cock you better get your tongue out of his ass. As you surely cannot do both at the same time. 

Is really weird, and decidedly suboptimal. How and why exactly, I don't know yet. The SDK should shed some light on things. 

I've just played the first two levels and I am very very impressed. I'm running high detail 1024x768 with 2x AA on my Radeon 9800 PRO w/ latest drivers and it has played very smoothly.

Things that stand out:

I didn't think that the textures would create the illusion of depth and geometry so well -- they do.

Models are top notch -- I was very impressed with the expressions and facial movements.

Great sound FX/sdtrk so far. I was impressed with the game's ability to sound futuristic, but not totally foreign.

Great fights so far, but I was a little annoyed when I got gang raped by two zombies on either side of a doorway, causing me to lose 70 health. I didn't have any visual or sonic clues that he was there until it was too late. Threw me off a bit.

Excellent sense of place. We all know the outpost base has been done to death, but I still found it to be incredibly immersive. The one thing that bothered me was the Half Life style health refuelers on the wall. They work, look, and sound exactly the same. Bleh.

Lighting is very convincing in action, and on the architecture, but sometimes not so much when you're talking to another Marine or personnel person. The lighting felt a bit off during these times.

I love love love the textures. They are outstanding in every respect. I was especially impressed by the texturing in the buffer areas between the Mars terrain about 20 minutes into it. Great.

*Spolier* Finally, when you first get to the guy you are supposed to bring back to the Marine base, and all Hell (literally) breaks loose, the fear is very palpable. I can't wait to play more.