Skill 2 demo https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/daz_vault.zip
Lots of narrow passages hurt this map I think. It was one intersection choke point after another with little variation. Not enough room to move around.
Ammo balance was off also. Critical lack of shotgun ammo in the 2nd half of the level means I was forced to use rockets on Shamblers. eww :(
I agree with Daz. Here's a demo from me -
I would avoid making levels interconnected with long cramped corridors. Make your rooms connect with very short corridors (or no corridors at all!), rooms should be big enough that you can dodge enemy attacks. I would vary the height of the floor in your rooms by small amounts (64-128 units) so that you can have enemies at different heights. If you're feeling really adventurous then make rooms have multiple ways in and out...
You have managed to pack in some nice details to the maps, so you're clearly able to make something look pretty enough. I would recommend you play some maps by community veterans like Sock, Than, CZG, MFX and basically learn all you can.
Yeah some nice texturing and brushwork but the layout and scale needs serious work.
In fact to get the basics down it's not a bad idea to spend some time looking at the stock Episode 1 and 2 levels, studying their scale, layout and connectivity. czg's terra episode is also a brilliant one to study.
Here's a demo: http://www.text-fish.co.uk/mappingstuff/nar_vault_tf.7z
Really like the visual style of the more open areas. I would happily describe the big courtyard near the beginning as "Gothic Shakespearean", and it's something I'd like to see more of.
The maze of narrow corridors evoked a good sense of "what's around the next corner?" tension, but this was at the expense of visual interest as it got a bit repetitive.
The final battle with the vores was poor. The pillars prevented them from advancing upon me, but by contrast the narrow corridors was awkward to retreat in to. I also think I skipped quite an interesting looking area with the zombies, which is a shame, and made the exit feel anti-climactic.
I don't think it would be possible to complete without monster infighting. Using infighting to progress isn't a bad thing (infact I'd argue it's one of the best things about Quake!), but I think it should be a conscious choice the player makes, rather than the accidental result of a total cluster-fuck of monsters raging around in a big room.
All in all I had fun and I'll play it again but only because I feel I was a bit cheated out of some bits of it. :P
Now, this is a level!
Aesthetically it's perfect. Would use a light amount of fog, but I'm just being picky.
Yes, corridors are tight like others said, but navigation is way smoother than your first one.
The secret was well done this time, I just had to pay attention to find.
There was a lot of infight too, something I love.
Nice one. Keep it coming.
Cool Cool Cool
Thanks for all the feedback y'all. Feel like I'm learning a lot. I wanted to have a feeling of confinement throughout the map, and watching demos/reading criticisms I'm understanding where that worked and where it didn't. I like the idea of connecting rooms with very short/no corridors, might try that next map. Anyway, all very helpful responses, thanks! And yeah, def wanna study up on some of the classics.
Since Text_Fish already spoiled it, here it goes: using infights, I could take a nice and quiet walk, very calm, among a shambler and a bunch of fiends, picking items without being attacked at all. Then I went to a balcony to appreciate the ogres explode everyone down there, just driving their grenades properly.
Must've posted while I was typing my response. Thank you so much! I've always wanted to try using fog but haven't taken the time to get comfortable with it. Is there a guide/reference somewhere?
Also I'm pretty sure it's not aesthetically perfect, but I appreciate the compliment all the same. :P
you really nailed that description of infighting's many pleasures
For Quakespasm and Fitzquake MarkV, add this key to worldspawn:
_fog 0.05 0.25 0.7 1
The first value is the amount of fog, the other three are RGB color values. These values above give a cyan tinted fog. Try play with the values.
Just played around with it a bit and I LOVE the way it changes the tone of all the textures, especially the skybox. Gonna have some fun with that in the future.
Liked the style, liked the in-fighting. Happy with some of the narrow corridors but perhaps not quite so many needed in such a small map - nothing wrong with small maps (not that I was into making small maps in my time ho, ho, ho)
Somehow I missed one monster?
Look forward to more.
Very, Very Cramped
Honestly, this is what happens when you detail the crap out of your map before putting thought into the gameplay and layout. I'm sorry if I sound like i'm being rude, but I think that it's a good idea to block out your map a bit, and THEN make it look pretty.
Mike - Thanks! Yeah I agree, too many narrow corridors, especially with how the "larger" rooms are not that large at all. thanks for playing!
Breezeep_ - not rude at all dude, I absolutely agree. I'll admit that roughing out levels is something I need to work on quite a bit. thanks for your feedback!
the map looks very nice, but as it's been mentioned above cramped corridors are not that good for the gameplay. I want to see some more (bigger) maps from you.
'All Ammo/Monsters/Explosions/Voreballs To The Wall'
The above excerpt from the readme file describes best for me how to play this map. I regret not reading it before playing. First playthrough here:
This also includes my first 100% demo on the map. Later I recorded another one, jumping right into the middle of the fight.
It was a fast&furious blastfest!
Holy Hell Parubaru
all these demos thank you! that 100% playthrough was fuckin great, quite the blastfest i'd hoped it'd be in some spots. and again very informative. thanks for playing!!!
I did play this last night and owe you a comment. I do agree with many of the critiques here and sorry if I am repeating something I missed but the nailgun in the first room is tough to see - I got it by accident. Some options for your next map: dramatic lighting, a raise platform (as I did with the red armor in Spellsgate) or have just make sure the powerup "pops" against a contrasting texture behind it.
Am I the only one who loved the cramped corridors? They were bloody great, had a perfect Lovecraftian feel, and the tall vertical fighting in the narrow last room was really well balanced to be perfectly fun without being annoying.
The only part that isn't aesthetically perfect is the outdoor area. Other than that, this map is a masterpiece for me.
And it looks outstanding in the software renderer. Perfect choice of textures.
It's interesting how there's absolutely no hint about the secret, but I instinctively though that that spot was perfect for a secret, axed the wall, and voila. Excellent gameplay design.
Actually a texture misalignment hints the secret.
gee thanks! haven't had any time to map for many days but your post makes me hope i get a chance soon. yeah the outdoor area blows - it was the result of my first attempt(s) doing rock geometry. really need some more practice with that. anyway, i'm glad you like the map!!
The outdoor area is important to make the map "breathe", a relief from the corridors.
"to let the map 'breathe'" would be better. Sorry, non-English speaker here.
mm, I agree that there needs to be relief from the corridors in some way but I think the outdoor area as I made it is ultimately ineffective. It almost feels as cramped out there as it does in the corridors :P
I think ionous did it right in his AD map.