|Posted by Mike Woodham on 2013/03/22 09:36:50
|As close to being finished as it will ever be, the end is not as originally planned but it is still playable.
Only tested in Fitzquake. Some music switches missing in the last map so you will either put up with it, or not play it :)
Not all short-cuts bring reward, and if you play on hard AND find the runes, you will get a nominally different ending.
UPDATE: quaddicted mirror: https://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/fmb_bdg2.zip
This should be posted on the quakeone.com forum too really, surprised it hasn't been already.
rather nice set of levels, feels epic and with nice gameplay and exploration.
Is This Officially The First Map Of 2013?
Awesome! Will Play Now!
For some reason I didn't check the news page and thought this was an old map that had been spam bot'd to the top of the forum. Wasn't until I clicked on this link in #tf that I found it. What a nice surprise!
was fun, but I swear I've played it before... has it been released before as another map?
I uploaded a demo, but fell in lava and died nearish to the end. Actually, I noclipped out of lava a couple of times because falling in lava really fucking sucks, and I'm a cry baby pussy. Other than the lava, it was quite easy on normal, but with a couple of surprises. Looking forward to map 2 :)
Here's that demo:
one thing I didn't like was the gold key. Maybe I was just being lame, but it seemed as if it was possible to jump across to it quite easily from the shelf with the torch of death on it, but I kept getting snagged on something. I think it's best to make things clearly out of reach, or just allow the player to take shortcuts if they have the skills to do so.
Good 2 Mins Of Fun!
it is possible to get it from the shelf at the beginning actually. I didn't get to the point where I could use it, I died in the lava a little later on.
THIS IS JUST THE TIPE OF MAP THAT I LOVE BEEN PLAYING IT ALL WEEKEND IM HAFE WAY THROW LEVEL 2
AND FUCK YOU TAKING MY GUNS AWAY! LOL IMPULSE 9! LOL THE LAVA TIGHT ROPE WALKING SUCKED TOO! LOVED THE DEATH ROOM! AND ALWAYS LOVE KILLING LAVA MAN... HOPE TO SEE MORE MAPS LIKE THIS
Finally found some time to finish the second and third map. The amount of work that must of gone into these maps is amazing. The rockwork feels amazing in places and the variety of space and encounter design is top notch.
The death arena in the first map is cool, nicely done and when the music changed it just felt epic. I liked all of the music and even thou you offered the choice to turn it off, it stayed on!
My favourite has to be the second map, the climbing up and around the structure, crossing chasms of lava and that bridge! I still have a screenshot you posted of the YA bridge and the design is amazing. The use of secret locations in the second map felt better to me, I liked the idea of looking over ledges and wondering how places connect. The extra monsters on the intermission screen was a very nice touch.
Do you have plans to release the map/progs source files?
Nice, But With Mixed Feelings
I agree it's pretty epic. Strong 'overwhelming dungon' vibe, and it looks awesome, oozing with atmosphere.
While it's great visually, unfortunately I found it to be lacking in the gameplay department. The levels don't have much variety. I made the mistake of playing on hard skill which probably made this worse. For the most part the gameplay, especially in the second map, consists of grinding through hordes of hellknights, ogres, and more hellknights. And for a long time only with poor weaponry. This became very tedious after a while. And then the player gets strapped of his gear after each level so the whole grind starts awew in the next map.
More varied monster placement would've helped a great deal, with a couple of additional custom enemies perhaps. More fragbait inbetween, and possibly more powerup action or a new powerful weapon.
I like the interconnected layouts and the shortcut opportunities, although I felt a little bad when I used them once or twice - as if I had broken the map. But it's cool since it adds some exploratory feel to it as well as individual play experiences (provided one doesn't get lost).
A bunch of very nice ideas in the levels. Some really good secrets. The guardians.
On the technical side, there are a few shortcomings, signs of a rushed release. For example, no pak; the palette.lmp, I believe it's the gamma patch?, should've been left out; the bsp names didn't have to be this complicated - a simple onlyents compile would have solved the problem (we did explain it here).
Then, it would have been possible to optimize the maps for staying within standard limits without much hassle.
But nevermind. I mean, I know you were sick of it and just wanted to get it out - we've all been there at some point. It's pretty cool you managed to finish and eventually release this thing after all. Thank you. :)
I Find It Hard To Believe
That there are no screenshots!!!
These are serious maps, not for the faint-hearted. A bit rough around the edges, and a few gameplay flaws, but I really like them:
+ A lot of good gameplay on hard skill - solid, relentless, but usually fair.
+ Nice that you get all the weapons but they reset to maintain the challenge.
+ Fair use of Quoth monsters for a change.
+ Layout and progression is crazy, possibilities to take shortcuts and skip sections is really good - disorientating but adds to the interest AND replayability.
+ Good mix of epic designs and tighter interconnecting bits.
+ Very good secrets.
- Some lava bits far too easy to die in.
- A few gameplay traps too hard and inhibit first time playing.
- More health was needed in some areas.
- Had a slightly scrappy feel to some areas and some texture combinations.
A good swansong I think :)
Another Story, Another Time, Another Place...
Some secrets are hard: if they we all easy they wouldn't be secrets, would they. Admittedly, two in This_Garlic were particularly hard: jumping through the red window, and shooting the imp blocking the way to the quad(or just jumping onto him). Not intuitive I agree.
Couldn't run the demo of the slaughter room problem; all the entities showed up but the brushwork was invisible? Maybe a Darkplaces problem but I only use Fitzquake.
On This Onion, you can jump to get the gold key early if you really want to - no deliberate snagging points there
Trigger_bastard vs impulse9 (I had to try to vary it a bit on such a big map)
No plans to release the source directly but the progs.dat can be decompiled (there's nothing in there that you guys can't program more efficiently than me but if there's something you want, just let me know)
There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)
Seems to be more + than - enjoyment, so I am happy. As long as one other person gets something out of it, I feel pretty smug :)
By the way, your explosion sprites worked a treat. I used them at the Vermis death in This Onion (the second one, when it sinks belkow the lava is particularly effective).
I also used them when the Guardians explode although that doesn't work quite so well due to timing, which I never got quite right.
@Couldn't run the demo of the slaughter room problem
Yeh recorded in DP, the monsters stay on the upper bridge and dont drop down
178 And The Rest
If you jump up to the area that is behind the silver-key door before getting the silver key, the push triggers and monster jumps are turned off. If you then drop down into the arena, and activate the monster spawning, they cannot get down to the arena and you will have trouble killing them - you can do it from below but it is not as planned, and your sense of enjoyment and wonder will be diminished :(
Other than that, I also just noticed that Darkplaces does not do fog the same as FitzQ, so it doesn't look as pretty. And also, the 'dead' ogres are not placed correctly on the floor - they still work but don't look right.
There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)
No doubt splitting the original map was the right thing to do. But what I meant by possible vanilla optimization is the exceeding of the edicts limit in the first map ("only" around 40 less required) and the lightmaps (65 instead of 64) in the third.
What Red Window??
Also how the fuck do you get the GA at the start of map1, that drove me mad!!
GA: shootable switch hard to spot from where you need to be although you can see it easily later on and can see the GA coming out of its cubby hole but you can't get to it from down there(bastard, eh?)
*** SPOILERS ***
Map 1 - GA : There is a book in the GA room with the word "shoot"! Took me forever to see it. A bit extreme for a GA.
Map 1 - Zombie pit (directly below MH on wooden beam) - No idea how the grate in the floor opens. no buttons, no clues.
Map 1 - RA on an alcove in main lava room, directly below starting area. No clues how the little door opens.
Map 2 - The broken red window is below the fancy wooden bridge over the chasm of lava. How you jump to that window is beyond me! Spent ages diving into lava and burning to a crisp.
My favourite secrets:
Map 1 - RL at beginning, totally amazing route, love it.
Map 1 - The extra supplies in the first button rooms (lots of dark alcoves on either side). The button even moves on skill level!?! The way the bars slide apart is a fantastic idea.
Map 1 - Thunderbolt and lightning very very frighting! Priceless! :)
Map 2 - YA under fancy wooden bridge, brilliant route
Map 2 - Gargoyle jump to Quad, awesome idea
Played all the maps a second time on Hard (Does anyone else play maps on all skill levels?) and there is a big difference on monster layout. Also feels like some monsters take more damage which feels wrong to me. IMHO health should be consist across skill levels.
Through The Red Window, Jeffery
This one is hard (for me anyway as I don't have good mouse skills). Firstly you have to spot that there is something different about the window. Then you have to think enough about it to waste a shell or spike on it. Then you seen the gap, and then you jump.
Two methods that I can do: one, straight onto the window cill; two, onto the parapet, then back off that and drop onto the arch's keystone, then onto the cill, then through the window. It leads to a short cut and you can sneak up on a couple of monsters.
Apologies for the crap hosting, should just click and open. I'll look for something better if more shots are needed.
Amazing Stuff, Mike.
I had not enjoyed playing a quake map like I did with this since at very last 3/4 years (no kidding, the game sorta grew stale on me).
Guess you got me back into the fold, so thanks a lot!
I ran twice through the sucka and found all secrets and man, were they fun!!!
I found them very "Painkillerish", which, in my book, is a good thing. Really rewards exploration.
I only have 2 minor gripes, both in the 2nd map:
1 - The first time I ran through it, I completely skipped half of it by accident, when the intermission screen came up I was tempted to reload, but did not want to disrupt the flow. It's great to have route choices and freedom, but maybe I would have liked more some hint pointing downstairs before exiting...
2- SPOILER: ...which leads us to the Pentagram secret: I found it a bit annoying having just one chance to get it, since the elevator does not come back down after being activated [the same as the GA atop the railing in some other map that I cannot remember now (1,2 or 3) , come to think of it]. That can be very easily missed.
More in general, I don't like maps that lock down and don't let you roam freely in the end to hunt secrets down, but that's just me...
The first GA is easily reached grenade jumping, even if one does not find the kosher "shoot me" book.
SPOILER Zombie grate SPOILER:
Just shoot the grate.
SPOILER Red Armor SPOILER:
Try looking at the main structure pillars from the platform where the music switch is...
Jumping from the bridge overlooking the broken window is possible. You land on the sill and the keep on jumping and cursing until you're able to get inside... ;)
Thanks again for a true masterpiece, Mike. Sad to see you move to other pastures...
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