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Q1SP: Three Towers And A Sick Base!
Here is my new map! Its a medium to large sized Base themed map, wide open spaces, semi-non-linear, uses the Quoth pack. This map is not without a few bugs, however it took six and a half days to vis, and I'm not going to do it again!

easy on easy
176 monsters on normal
270-odd monsters on hard



I would stick to AguirRe's engine, availiable. If anyone manages to use another engine, I'd love to hear about it:

Last one to the top is a rotten egg!!
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The only way he managed to survive was by knowing beforehand what was going to happen, most noticable in the tower fight/luring the monsters on the lifts.

Theres more involved than just knowing where they were. I only knew where the monsters were from the first 3 towers. After that, I didn't know what to expect. Many of the monsters were in different positions in the beta, so many of the ambushes caught me by surprise, such as the vores and the vorelings in the SNG room, and all those flying winged demons near the end with the two gugs. Wasn't prepared for them. 
Dont Play On Darkplaces... 
Its a nice engine in some ways but over the years has accumulated too much cruft and bugs. Yes it loads the map but runs dog slow on my computer (even after turning off RT lighting) and there are tons of clipping bugs. Aguires engine has no problems apart from a few disappearing brushes.

I don't know why ppl are saying its so hard, is there some unspoken rule that your not allowed to save? Completed it on nightmare and yes, even though I died more than a few times it was all over within an hour. I only found one point where I think it could be impossible - if you accidentally fall off the gug platform there is no way you can make it back up there to finish the map, without getting killed by the stomp attacks. 
We're Not Listening, Are We? 
Quit saying "so what if the map is hard, cry some more" for fuck's sake. The point I kept making was inappropriate amounts of space in combat. Not that the new weapons didn't come soon enough or there wasn't enough armor. You're too often either fighting shitloads of stuff at a time with no room to maneuver or stuff that's too far away to be feasible fighting in the first place.

I'm done here. Take it or leave it. 
To Be Fair... 
In re-reading your initial post, the "tiny rooms" and distance aspects were just a couple of (good) comments among many; they didn't seem to me like the major focus of the feedback.

I suspect RickyT23 just might not have "gotten" it, since I had to read back to figure out exactly what you were referring to.

[/panties bunched]?
Or perhaps I'm just retarded. Eh. 
I Dont Mind 
All I can say is that I've got a lot to think about before my next release.

Im not claiming that this is the best map ever made or anything like that.

I have uploaded a version of this map with a SNG so that when you get into the towers you can 'nail' (so to speak) all of those nasty Defenders with shotguns without having to have a cow. I could have removed some of the enemies from the rooms, but the SNG along with the red armour and extra health should mean that it isnt necessary. I cant change the fact that I released this, I maintain that some hardcore Quake addicts managed to blast their ways up to the roof on hard difficulty even prior to the changes, even that they felt compelled to do so, and didnt just delete it from their hard disks in disgust, theres nothing I can do about it. I have started putting some brushes together for my next project, and hopefully I'll have the mind to avoid nasty bottleneck blackspots that leave people feeling frustrated and dead.

I think that anyone who CAN do Sickbase on Nightmare (cause it is possible, was before, definately is now) should be pleased with themselves for being able to complete a very hard map!

Anyone who cant, I'm really really really sorry! 
Lunaran - Fuck you!

I fucking sent you a copy of this map, I fucking asked you if you would look at it, you said you would, I politely tried to remind you, so why didnt you voice your opinion to me then rather than wait for me to release it, THEN play it, THEN help me to see all of the flaws in it?

How come you bothered to look at it at all?

You miserable bastard. 
Ah, Yes 
Rick, If I Was You.... 
...I'd cool it now... 
Post #56 
Nice, I like it.

Haven't played the map yet. 
*Phew *. . . 
For a minute there I lost myself. 
Well Yes. 
Shambler, I want you ranting!

Sure, why not:

You lot are a bunch of whiney losers who should take up knitting or something. Only Trinca and Orl have a right to comment on this because they've put some effort into facing up to the challenge. WTF is this "Play on something that challenges a bit and call that Hard" nonsense?? Normal should challenge you a bit, Hard should challenge you a fair bit. Things have moved on since Quake itself, when we've got maps like Warpspasm and that big gothic temple thing recently (sorry forgot the name). God knows how you lot got through those without wetting yourselves... Okay so this is a bit hard but it's not that hard if you use your brain and explore the whole map, you've got about 10 square miles to work with so take advantage of it, explore, take obscure paths. Retreat is an option yes?? Run past monsters and get to somewhere you can fight them safely. The Vores were piss as you never had to fight them on their terms. Okay there are a few unfair situations but there are in a lot of maps, most of them only catch you out once. For what it's worth, I did cheat on the very final battle on Hard skill but only because I ran out of ammo, if I played it again it wouldn't be a problem.

WTF is this "Play on something that challenges a bit and call that Hard" nonsense?? Normal should challenge you a bit, Hard should challenge you a fair bit.

Shambler, the reasoning behind this approach is that the mapper knows his level inside-out, so he has a big advantage over a first-time player. Therefore, if it feels like normal for him, it should probably be the "hard" setting. 
Hmmm okay..... 
Shambler fails at gamedesign 
Watched Ankh's Demo... 
You did get 100% monsters on normal, aguirRe has informed me that there are four missing monsters with entities with no targetnames. For some strange reason quake only reads six of the seven secrets, but a pop-up message occurrs with all of them (weird). Hmm, maybe I put one of them as a trigger_once instead of trigger_secret. I'll check... 
Gets Better After The Start 
Unfair gameplay. The towers were a pain in the butt since you had no choice but to take damage. It got better after this but there were still some annoyances.

I played the map with Darkplaces and FPS was constantly pretty low on my new computer. There were also some strange bugs - you were able to walk through some brushes (mostly boxes) and enemies came through walls in a few spots.

Architecture was pretty good but I'd have stick with original surroundings (grass, mountains and blue sky with maybe water beneath the gameplay area instead of lava).

Didn't find any secrets, took me about 15 minutes. 
I happened to notice one strange secret room with a ROS, maybe that's the lost secret? 
Ghost Boxes... 
...That's because of some Darkplaces' bug. Played it (sort of ) in aguirre's GL and it works like a charm.
But, totally unenjoyable without a very fast F6 finger... 
I Reckon 
The Quoth creatures are pepper. Too much and they spoil the map, but used sparingly they make it more entertaining. 
I was thinking if I made it so that the guys in the rooms at the tops of the towers were facing away from the elevator instead of towards it it would have given the player a bit more of a chance.

ROS secret is a tuffy. Four of the secrets involve shooting textures, two of which are subtly 'incorrect' textures.

Has anybody figured out the Pentegram secret yet? Its on top of the third tower but getting there without cheating - you have to stand in a certain place and shoot a certain button. 
Pent Secret 
Yes, I found it. Hence my remark about the possible shortcut. 
If You Think That 
the map is too difficult, try running it under Warp in coop 4. Or coop 3 for only std id monsters.

And if it's too easy, there's always coop 2 ... 
Oh Good 
I worry it was a bit too obscure! 
Try running it in a engine other than yours. The spf (not fps) will make it worse. 
Your current Neh engine don't have the extra coop features?

I ask because its more favourable to use the most recent for warp (mainly for the PG effect) but that'll mean that the extra coop mode starts won't work? 
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