OTP doesn't map, he trolls... it's his raison d'etre. 

 

First, technical questions about the readme file:

1.Shouldn't ericw be given credit for engine support?

2.Shouldn't all authors be referred to by full real name, nickname, or both (instead of abbreviated real names in some cases) ?

3.Shouldn't the map names (not only the bsp file names) be included?

4.Shouldn't all the monsters' name be mentioned?

5.Shouldn't it read 'The Marcher Fortress' instead of 'Marchers Fortress'?

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Where is the written credit for the idea, the thought, the inspiration?

I consider the detailed 'mod resource credits' an important part of the release. I credit sock for the work of putting this list together.

I think it still lacks something.

Let's take an example by looking at some references:

mon_minotaur.mdl by Raven Software, additional gibs/head models by SimonOC
mon_spider.mdl by Raven Software, new animation and green skin by SimonOC
mon_gargoyle.mdl by Raven Software, additional gibs cut from main model

Inspiration for the new gib system, Marchers Fortress by BenW
nofire, secret3 and demonwind sounds from Marchers Fortress by BenW

I think there is something actually very important missing: the connection
between the monster models, The Marcher Fortress and the AD mod.

To give credit to sock for giving credit, let's quote him from the thread:

Fun Fact : Marcher was one of the original inspirations for AD, the gib system and use of H2 models is the reason they exist in AD!

This is what I thought proper credit for inspiration would be like.

Another example: let's look at the rocketeer, defender and eliminator.

It seems obvious that they were inspired by and based on Quoth monsters of the same name.

Yet the only related written reference to Quoth I have found is:

Bob, Drole, Gaunt, Voreling and some enforcer/soldier sound effects from Quoth MOD

At this point, please let me quote my own posts from the thread:

a credit list at least as long as the ad_v1_42p2_readme file.
a proper credits section with all the authors whose work served as inspiration

Now this seems to me an unreasonable expectation on my part for which I apologize. I just WISH such a document was accompanying the mod.

I realize giving credit to every author for 'inspiration' could be extremely difficult if not impossible.

This helps to explain the bullet points list of used assets: code material, models, textures, sounds, skyboxes. A source of dissatisfaction for me was this format, because the above grouping means assets from the same particular mod or author get separated.

Finally, while I continue to feel dissatisfied with the credits, it is my own personal view. A personal view probably based on my misconception about what is considered proper credits, and credits for inspiration. 

 

This post, while a bit harsh, certainly has a point. 

I actually thought the credits for AD to be excessive to be honest. If Sock spent evening more time on the documentation then the mod would have suffered.

I can't speak for the team but as someone who gave up a lot of my free time last year to help with the mod I'm pretty bummed out by the amount of negativity and nitpicking. Mostly because it's unjustified for such a quality release.

Out of all the communities Quake has some of the worst trolls. And usually it's the trolls who don't even produce content. 

I actually thought the credits for AD to be excessive to be honest. If Sock spent evening more time on the documentation then the mod would have suffered.

I can't speak for the team but as someone who gave up a lot of my free time last year to help with the mod I'm pretty bummed out by the amount of negativity and nitpicking. Mostly because it's unjustified for such a quality release.

Out of all the communities Quake has some of the worst trolls. And usually it's the trolls who don't even produce content. 

1) Drop it.

2) Stop talking about sock's crediting of Marcher as if I'm not here. It has been credited fine. Sock is a cool guy, I have a good rapport with him, I have had access to AD during the development of the mod, and if there was anything in there that I didn't like, I would have said something during the many weeks of exposure I have had to the mod and readme before you even knew that the mod existed. 

Because I really hate to see this thread hijacked, I suggest we take any future conversation about parubaru and his little audit to this thread here:

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60297 

Parubaru really loves to fuck flies in the ass it seems. 

I think parabaru should submit a diff/patch with the suggested expanding of the credits at this point, which the AD team could consider. I.e. actions not words. Or action-words. 

I think parabaru should submit a diff/patch with the suggested expanding of the credits at this point

or maybe he should just find a nice bridge and jump off it. 

Question regarding AD tools:

Is there a way to have a Quoth-style (info_mapgate) for AD? I know there are playerstart2 keys that can match with a change_level trigger but that is for positioning it looks like.

Basically, looking if it is possible with current AD tools to have a portal to another level close once you complete the map...when regarding a hub map. 

I see the "opinion counter to mine = trolling" mindset is full back and alive on this website. 

Sorry I don't understand conflict good enough to join poop throwing party, but I wonder...
why remake raven monsters when you can make new ones?
I mean, you still would have to make models, textures and animations. All that just to have "clean" content. 

"Only content producers can have an opinion", right from the times of web 1.0. Hasn't ijed completely rebuked this bullshit in a post from like two weeks ago? 

Skiffy has mentioned already he is interested in replacing the H2 models with new "quakey" designs. I don't think anyone here is advocating "remakes" of the H2 monsters. 

Gentlemen,

the final and corrected version of MFX's "ad_swampy" HD pack can be downloaded here:

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod-releases/works-progress/11588-hd-textures-sp-maps-29.html#post164128

Off-topic:
the HD pack for Sock�s fabulous 'The Horde of Zendar' can be downloaded here:

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod-releases/works-progress/11588-hd-textures-sp-maps-29.html#post164129

Enjoy 

 

But this place has always been a beacon of social competence, mutual respect, objective civilized discourse and understanding 

looking if its possible with current AD tools to have a portal to another level close once you complete the map...when regarding a hub map.

Quake uses (4) runes to make changes between maps. You can use func_episodegate or func_bossgate for stuff that can open/close based on runes collected when the map is started. There is also trigger_rune which can be triggered after the map has started, there is an example of this in the AD start map below the skill pillars. 

Yeah I knew of the rune triggers but I suppose if I have more than 4 levels I would end up at my same issue. It's not really an issue and the more I think about it...I don't see the point of blocking completed maps. Maybe someone wants to replay it!

Thanks for the reply though, the trigger_rune will be of great use to really give that start map the umph it needs. ;) 

credits for inspiration

What is this? I think if someone credits someone for inspiration he gives a favor to somebody, but that's not something that's necessary.

We're making a map for AD using hexen2 textures and using monsters with hexen2 models atm. I believe it all ends up in a really good quake map. And I want so thank sock for providing such a great base for new quake content. And the more I get into it, the more I love it.
Stop bitching around. 

So...I ripped the entity state system just to get the particle system just to get the runes to float above the books because the books are really quite amazing.

Now I have this entity state system, and a particle system that only do one thing in my mod...book effects.

I also ripped the breakables which required all of socks subs code, which required almost all of the defs which were scattered in like 5 different files and also I had to modify the axe code to play the right sound effects then I had to modify the pain code to get the particle blood to be the right color. Incidentally, sock forgot to add the ceramic sound effect in to the axe code FYI.

I would share my extracted version to save others the time but...now it's all ensconced in my own code. Oh well. Heads up to anyone thinking about going all Pacman on the code.

Fun stuff! 

I suspect Sock didn't forget to add the ceramic sound since he never implemented the breakable pots that was planned (much to my disappointment, I would have loved to do some grecian or egyptian levels with zelda pot smashing!), it was a pretty late feature and I think we would have missed the release date if implemented. I would have loved to see health vials and armour shards added, maybe have them drop from pots.

The mod was also intended to be ripped/changed for use in your personal projects.

Also, remember to give credit (opening a big can of worms here!!!)