but i like spirit, and i miss him 

Would all the drama go away if otp went away?

I don't have a dog in this fight but this is a question that came to mind reading these recent posts. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR-FLwonazA 

Yeah OTP had nothing to do with this situation. 

I guess reading the few your antagonistic posts above, coupled with the remembrance that your posts can be some of the most toxic here, made me think of that question.

Again, I look at this all from a distance and most times it just makes me laugh. 

Sorry if posting a quote of Spirit is antagonistic to you. 

It's not OTP.
This is bound to happen in a narcissistic group where dick jokes, in-crowd memes and personal cults are the gold standard and empathy a rarity. If anything OTP has simply played some tunes that were inspired by all this in the first place. 

Dang post #420 coming in with the realness.

Blaze it fam! 

Could anything else really be expected after so many years? 

What the hell are you smoking man?

Just because we're blunt does not mean that we're narcissistic or unempathetic. Dick jokes and in crowd memes are common among any small community who enjoy non-PC humour.

Even if you're correct about OTP and he is a bad actor, asserting that it is this place that is at fault/breeds that kind of behaviour and not the fault of his individual actions is foolish.

Also what the fuck is a personal cult and where is there one here? I haven't seen one.

Next time post with your name, otherwise map more, troll less. 

...that wasn't a troll Shamblernaut, that was a guy saying exactly what many of the old-schoolers of this community have realized over the last several years: We've created and encouraged a toxic atmosphere on this board that enables the constant abuse and negativity that goes on now. It was wrong to do and be ok with this shit then, it's still wrong now.

And these aren't new criticisms of the community (and aren't so different than the criticisms of gaming culture as a whole), people were calling us Qboard posters elitist jerks ~20 years ago, but this is the latest chance to confront these problems and maybe do it right this time. I was always the one making some of your same arguments then, but you learn and grow and so should a community.

Drama isn't going to go away by ignoring it, telling people to just 'go map' and pretending like the causes are 'just how things are' and that makes it acceptable. Just means you've limited the community to assholes, people who are ok with assholes, and idiots who don't realize they are surrounded by the shit of all these assholes. That's no way to run a community when you want it to also be encouraging of creative and interesting voices; because what exists right now only feeds biases, revels in its own ignorance, and glorifies bludgeoning anyone who has "wrong opinions" to feel a bit superior. And if it takes only a few bad apples to spoil the bunch, well it takes even less in a smaller community.

But, since you seem to love "non-PC humor", a codeword for dunking on minorities and people different than you and it somehow being ok because 'free speech!', maybe you want to be surrounded by assholes? Realize though that all the truly smart and interesting and talented people will be less and less excited to be around such garbage and will dwindle more and more; and maybe when some sycophant in the community decides you're target of the moment and chases your every move around the internet telling you to kill yourself and that you're a jew sjw cuck like someone does to sock and MFX and me; you'll have no one to care and be bothered to defend you anymore and you'll wonder if a few silly Quake maps was worth that. 

Wait, why was #420 deleted? It was completely on topic and worth discussing. 

SM181: A Map pack that....eh fuck it 

Maybe the tone, the contents were understandable given the situation the community is. 

If a person posts anonymously blaming a whole community for the actions of a couple of people, then yes... They're trolling.

If they have a problem with an individual and their actions, then they should take it up with them.

I find it pretty odd to go into somebody else's online space (not that we don't welcome everybody here), and anonymously rag on their community. I don't do it to others and I expect the same from them.

Telling people to go map is me telling them to do something more productive with their time than continuing the drama. 

Haven't read the rest, sorry, I'm not really following this discussion, but:

We've created and encouraged a toxic atmosphere on this board that enables the constant abuse and negativity that goes on now.

Not sure I agree with that, I am seeing some good discussions on here, lots of good chat from indepth discussions to standard banter on discord, some great streaming / playthroughs, and of course a fuck ton of cool releases.

FWIW Shamblernaut is definitely part of that positivity, in all of those ways above (+viewer interaction). 

Free speech is important. People evolve over time.

Someone who seems ignorant today, might be someone who maybe tomorrow has something of value to contribute -- or may be contributing in an what seems like an "unwanted way".

The weakest communities on the internet are the ones with censorship.

They have "me too" group think like Facebook and other places where having independent thought probably means getting "banned".

Excellence is not necessarily politely. The truth can also be rude. Sometimes an unpopular person has something valuable to say.

The best way to figure these things out is a very ancient way ---> arguing.

The worst way to figure these things out is a very ancient way ---> silencing an unpopular person so they are denied the ability to express their thoughts. 

I'll never get to know what post #420 said, apparently.

But I will tell you this, conventional wisdom about "jerks" is wrong.

The adage goes "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you will experience."

That it is dead wrong.

Engage an "idiot" (who am I to make that judgment, I'm not qualified and I won't) and raise the bar so they have to think.

If they are an "idiot" force them to think. And do NOT pre-judge them.

Raise the conversation to your level and then find out where that discussion leads!

Civility is demonstrating to the barbarian that your system of ethics is so strong that it can even accommodate the "unwashed" into your equation of fairness and do so effortlessly.

That your superior levels of ethics is so powerful and so generous that will it will treat the unfair with fairness -- and do it without batting an eye.

Kindness to those that least expect such treatment is the ultimate display of strength.

Strength is something that those that have made the journey hope to share with others! It permeates. It penetrates. It is the irresistible goodness wrapped up with the force of justice and fairness in a single package. 

that only works in an ideal world. Not saying that it doesn't work, but that it works only for some people and against some others: When engaging with unreasonable persons in that composed, confident going by facts and reasoning way, it is the most common thing to get brushed off, mocked, ignored, or in a more ''modern way'' be called a normal-old-new-fag, with them closing off their hearts and ears to anything they don't approve or supported by what they think they know or its normal, going to the point of twisting reality to extreme points in the worst cases as time passes.

I also thought that way also back when i was young, and saw others try it too, but facts, putting doubts on their minds and proof don't help in a conversation when the other side is confronting you: in my experience, charisma, patience, reputation, followers, very strong self-confidence and/or even forcefulnesses, or having the support of someone with those characteristics will convince or at least put doubts on those persons way better than that way.

That's why ''Don't feed the troll'' or "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you will experience." advice are useful, as most of us don't have enough of those characteristics to pull what you say of and would end up entangled on the flamer/troll plan. Not that we should follow those advices always, but having them at hand is a ''necessary evil'' for most of us.

Also, if you want to know what that guy said, it was a very small text (4 lines) around the lines that Func was filled and promoted dick jokes, in crowd memes and personal cults amongst others, and that Onetruepurple was just someone going with that dance, not one of the perpetrators or promoters. That with less composed words, of course, but not resorting to insults if i remember well. 

Spirit has blocked access to Quaddicted from European IPs since the 4th of August. Any news on the progress of implementing GDPR on the site?

I need my regular fix of custom maps and withdrawal symptoms are starting to show. D: 

[7:21 PM] Shambler: it's a bit of paranoia but a bit justified from what i recall?
[7:21 PM] Shambler: very very small chance of there being a problem but spirit is worrying about it
[7:21 PM] Shambler: i hope it gets sorted
[7:21 PM] Shambler: wasn't fric going to help him or something?
[7:23 PM] Friction: @Shambler what. no.
[7:24 PM] Friction: he needs to stop being a giant dumb
[7:25 PM] Friction: this is not about copyright
[7:25 PM] Friction: that's not what GDRP is about
[7:25 PM] Shambler: copyright is the new data protection thingy whatsite?
[7:25 PM] Shambler: personal data
[7:26 PM] Friction: it's not something you can litigate over just like that. you have to file a complaint to the data protection commissioner
[7:27 PM] Friction: and if you're being stupidly egregrious about it, they we go "hey, knock it off you dumbo"
[7:28 PM] Friction: unless you're a multi-hunrder million corp selling stuff IDs to china or something, then fines start to enter picture
[7:28 PM] Shambler: but this is like someone saying "yo spirit u got all mah fucking log-in details and this shit i wrote and argn't giving me full control about it so ima gonna sue y ass"??
[7:28 PM] Friction: "The Commissioner's main priority is to make sure that an organisation respects your rights and puts matters right. Most breaches of the Data Protection Acts are not offences. This means that an organisation cannot be punished by the Courts."
[7:29 PM] Friction: so get spirit on the paranoia-phone and tell him to stop sweating bullets
[7:29 PM] Friction: additionally
[7:29 PM] Friction: "The Data Protection Commissioner has no role whatsoever in dealing with compensation claims. Where the Commissioner upholds or partially upholds your complaint against an organisation, that does not give you a right to compensation."
[7:29 PM] Friction: this kills frivolous litigation
[7:30 PM] Friction: Section 7 of data protection acts from like early 2000 ALREADY covers this crap litigationwise
[7:31 PM] Friction: so sheesh. calm down.
[7:31 PM] neggers: well, there are lawyer trolls who sue for small infractions or if something's not 100% according to the regulations, not because it's an acutal issue, but for their own financial benefit
[7:31 PM] muk: all this time telling us and you could be telling spirit :qdumb:
[7:31 PM] Friction: well he's not here is he
[7:31 PM] neggers: it's unlikely to be a problem for quaddicted, but still
[7:31 PM] Friction: the nexus of information and valuable opinions, #tf
[7:31 PM] Friction: argh, discord, pls
[7:32 PM] Friction: i swear. this thing at times
[7:32 PM] Friction: anyways. if it's litigation he is worried about, he should have started worrying 20 years ago. GDRP has nothing to do with that shit
[7:33 PM] Shambler: fric
[7:33 PM] Shambler: tell him this
[7:33 PM] Shambler: spirit @ quaddicted.com or #whatevz
[7:33 PM] Friction: *farts in a jar and sends as overnight parcel*
[7:34 PM] Shambler: excellent
[7:34 PM] Shambler: fric is the litigation advisor i trust 

I offered financial support to Spirit so he could contact a lawyer weeks ago. I'm sure there are others that would pitch in.

As a community, we need to come up with better options for these legacy files that are now basically being held hostage -- for lack of a better term. 

At a minimum we need a different maps-archive URL at which to point Quake Injector (and Mark V installs). I could run something on AWS, maybe use Amazon Lightsail? Not sure if there's a better option. 

Actually... I'll experiment with setting up something in an S3 bucket. Will report back. 

If there's any need for paid services I would be happy to pitch in. Until I retire that is - then I will be pinching serious pennies.