confirmation, please also check the above mentioned cvar gl_subdivide_size, it really helps in this map. 

I did some coop testing with ZQuake's server today as it works with NQ progs.dat for QuakeWorld serving.

How come in both Bastion and Marcher there is no weapon stay with "coop 1"? This takes away any chance of playing coop on them without cheating. :(

On other mods it works fine so there must have been some change about this in the progs.dat. Any chance for a fix? 

I'd hazard a guess it's due to entity saving changes. In unmodified Quake, the ammo entities aren't removed when you pick them up, even in single player. So if you change the code to do this, then you're gonna save on entities that can be reused. It'd probably be safe enough to revert this change on just the weapons, so that they can stay in coop, but you'd need to make the changes. 

Quite understandable. Kinn, would you release the sources for the bastion and marcher progs.dat files? 

This is the map of the century! Im speakless at how anyone could make something like this and with Q1 damn it! Wow, it just goes to show that a good texture set in the hands of mapmaking genius can produce such an amazing thing.

The gameplay of skill 0 was tough but enjoyable and the final battle, is just *epic* and fantanstic all at the same time! I love the new creatures, ambience, layout and pacing, it was all flawless.

16:40:57 czgMarcher : holy fucking shit Kinn
16:41:06 czgMarcher : I mean jesus fucking christ
16:41:15 czgMarcher : what the fuck is fucking wrong with you?
16:41:22 czgMarcher : because fuck
16:41:26 czgMarcher : that was fucking awesome
16:41:33 czgMarcher : fuck

I to have to agree with czg, OMGWFTBBQ this is amazing. :)
I have got to play some more of this map ... 

Marcher completely blew my mind when it was released. 

Was great as well. Marcher has more epic brushwork, but Bastion isn't completely left out. 

played through both (this & bastion) yesterday for the first time in ages. they're both still incredible. marcher very slightly edges it but you're talking like the best and second best q1sp maps ever made :)

was quite a weird sensation clicking on to start.bsp after the end intermission in each; it's never seemed so claustrophic... 

i agree, marcher and bastion are the milestones in q1 mapping. does anyone of you here know if kinn is still somewhere round here? i'd love to see more kinn's work. 

Think Kinn pops up on #terrafusion every once in a long while, but it's been a while since I've seen him myself. I think he got a job in the industry somewhere? and doesn't really map for Quake anymore.

Also he has a drinking problem I'm pretty sure. 

maybe his ass should be the next speedmap theme.

I hadn't played bastion forever - since it came out, actually - and had forgotten how amazing it is!

the architecture is not nearly as impressive as in marcher, but it's still pretty good, and the sense of scale/hordes and cohesion of the unit blows me away... minus the Q2 chaingun guys. but they're fun and awesome enough for me to let that slide. 

Finally completed the map on all skill levels and wow what a rollercoaster of gameplay experiences. :)

I especially like the horde style epic battles at the end. They were tough but I was still able to complete them because I had all the weapons and enough ammo. There was plenty of AI around to start infighting which helped my kill ratio alot :P I think that was the key to making the horde style fun for me, was I had the right amount of weapons to fight back.

I still can't get over how this was created for Q1, the initial cave section is awesome with the fiend walking away and the consistent use of knights and medieval monsters meant the atmosphere was always consistent. The scale of the map is large but it still felt right with low ceilings and large caverns. I liked the trick with the angled stairs to gain height quicker. (I did a similar trick in one of my own maps)

Overall, the best medieval epic castle map I have played so far for Q1. It really should be top of the Q1SP charts somewhere! :) 

the architecture is not nearly as impressive as in marcher

really? i don't think there's that much of a gulf between the two in terms of architecture. sure marcher has the amazing exterior setting, but the some of the buliding designs in bastion are insane, notably the end arena and the earlier battle arena prior to entering the underground section (with the quad).

bastion also slightly edges out marcher in the fear stakes; parts of the the underground complex prior to meeting the first shuffler are truly creepy, remembering the swinging gate in particular! the layout is also more extensive and you cover more ground than in marcher. it certainly has plenty of things in its favour

but marcher just left that little bit more of an impact, mainly because of the how well it handled the inside/outside divide and the sheer volume of space you have to play in. and the belltower XD 

another really awesome medieval map to play is Day of the Lords by Glassman. 

^that would be #3 :-) 

Maybe I over-stated it.

I think that the architecture of Marcher benefited from the cohesion as well.
there are almost no thin walls, etc. everything is bulky and rounded, whereas in bastion there are more square angles and also thinner trim/walkways/decorations etc.

But I probably overstated it. I mean, both get 10/10 from me, so it's totally relative. 

Most engines have external .ent support (DarkPlaces, Quakespasm, Mark V, FTE, ... )

Marcher doesn't have coop spawns. Easily fixed by an external .ent file adding 3 more info_player_coop.

With coop 1, the silver key does seem to permanently disappear, I can imagine a trigger remove the silver key door thrown into an external .ent file could fix.

Anything else that prevents it from being fully coopable? I've cooped it a few times and haven't noticed anything that permanently blocks progress ... 

Ok weapons don't stay either ... 

Coop is broken in the actual QC in worse ways than just a lack of spawns.

The lack of weapon stay is caused by my (often pointless) code "refactoring" which I failed to bother testing properly in multiplayer.

The monster and item spawning will also be totally wacky.

However, my current QC base has fixed all these issues, and when (if) I get around to releasing my current episode (lol), it will include coop-friendly versions of Marcher and Bastion.

It will also solve world peace and give you a soapy tit-wank. 

Kinn,

I was just reliving the glory days of this awesome release. Do you have a problem with me ripping a few of your monsters for my map/mod? Would it be possible to have your source qc files for your monsters?

I'll be waiting for your reply. (If you take too long I might just decompile the progs like I did for...oh wait I don't do that, it's too sneaky)

Over here mapping happy,
Qmaster

The castle will rise... 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61424391/benQuake2QC.rar

This is my current codebase. It reverts a lot of the cosmetic changes from marcher, so most sounds and gibs etc. are back to how they are in normal quake, but the marcher monsters are still in there.

This code is about 95% identical to the marcher code I believe - code I haven't really touched in 8 years, so to borrow a phrase from the Carmack, "there's probably a lot of embarrassing crap in there". 

i'm begging you to release something new for Q

depends on your free time and all that jazz though,

seriously 

if you get what im talking about 

I'm working on something for quake, oh yes. 

kinn_curry_un.zip