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Portions Of Maps Disappearing.
#10473 posted by enliten on 2010/11/08 17:21:20
Hey, I'm fairly new to this mapping thing. I'm having trouble with a room in my map, it's only visible when you walk into the room.
I had this problem in the same room earlier, I aligned some walls better and it seemed to fix the problem. However, I've just added some walls in a completely different area and it's re-occuring.
Is the reason why this is happenning because I've overlapped some brushes somewhere? Or am I off track?
Is there an easy way to find these errors prior to compiling?
I'm using Quark, txqbsp, rvis and arghlite.
Thanks.
Level Design Perforating My Mind
#10474 posted by kaffikopp on 2010/11/08 17:30:10
Hi all, been working on a Quake 1 singleplayer map for some time and have a couple of questions.
When I began working on my map, I decided to finish all the brush- and texturework first, not bothering to seal the map so it would compile fast, and then move on to entities like lights, monsters and doors and sealing it. However, when I last tried compiling I had reached the max clipnodes, so I'll have to seal up the map anyway and perhaps simplify some architecture, convert details into func_wall etc...
Anyway, I was wondering how you guys build your maps? Do you design it room by room, finishing each completely with lights, brushwork and entities before moving on to the next, or complete aesthetics first before moving on to entities?
And when it comes to compile tools, should I use txqbsp or treeqbsp? What's the main differences? How does your compile setup look like, what command line parameters would you suggest for soft, high-contrast lightning (i.e -soft, -extra etc)?
I'm using QuArK 6.6 Beta if that matters.
Thanks!
Firstly Hi!!!
#10475 posted by RickyT33 on 2010/11/08 17:33:34
Always awesome to hear of new mappers.
First suggestion, use AguirRe's modified Vis tool, its the best. The only vis tool which is better is WVis which is just a modified version of AguirRe's tool which supports multi-threading (its faster if you have Hyperthreading in your CPU and/or more than 1 core):
(AguirRe's tools)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/bjptools-090908.zip
(His Vis)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/visbjp.zip
(WVis modified by Willem)
http://www.quaddicted.com/tools/wvis_20100119.7z
This might fix the problem.
Another issue might be that you are using the ORIGINAL GlQuake client or WinQuake client. It has a console command to increase the draw distance, I cant remember what the command is, but you would be better off using a more modern client like Fitzquake:
http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake/
The other explanation would be that you are having a portal error which causes this to happen. This could be caused by a number of things, but basically its "poor mapping technique". The only real way for me to guage this is to have a look at your map source, or atleast a screenshot from Quark of the area which this happens. Preferbly a screenshot of a 3D view, with textures.
Looking at your mapsource is the easiest way.
Anyway it might be crappy vis program or bad client causing it, so try the new tools and engine first :)
Also Berntsen
#10476 posted by RickyT33 on 2010/11/08 17:44:28
Hi!!
See the above post for a link to FitzQuake client, this will run a map quite happily which is over the limit for clipnodes.
I use TxQbsp, Im not sure the difference between that and Tree. I use the command -hilimit because my current map is soo big that if there was a leak it wouldnt even compile at all, because the compiler can't take it without that command!
I use AguirRe's light tool, also linked to in the above post, with the command line -extra4 (for a final compile) and nothing else.
I also use the Vis tools mentioned in the above post.
When using coloured lights I used to use Tyrlite with the command line -colored -lit -extra, because it was the only tool which I could get to work with coloured lights, but there is a modified version of AguirRe's light tool which now supports coloured lights which is not far from a release (infact i think it did get released in the General Abuse thread a couple of days ago!
As for how to build the map - well it depends. Some people like to block out the map first, with simple rooms, then work a little into the architecture, then put the monsters in, and THEN go through the map detailing it heavily. This is probably the best way of doing it.
I personally make most of my brushwork on the first pass, but I am starting to do blocking out first nowadays, just because it seems to be quicker.
Hitting limits of the original engine is not such a crime anymore. Fitzquake 0.85, AguirRe's modified GLQuake, Darkplaces, Quakespasm are all engines which will run maps far bigger than the original limits allowed. And FitzQuake is pretty much the standard for a Quake client. So if you wanna make huge maps, I say DO IT!!!!
#10477 posted by Trinca on 2010/11/08 17:50:08
enliten work with grid 16
I think you are working with low grids that make map full of leaks because of the alignment
welcome enliten and Berntsen any help you guys need with Quark just sent me a email or add me in msn!
Email in the same just check my profile!
#10478 posted by kaffikopp on 2010/11/08 18:08:22
Thanks for the quick replies guys.
I think I'm going to go with simple brushwork first and finish the entire map layout before moving on to more advanced stuff like entities and small details... until now I've been focusing on detailing every room before moving on, and have hit mappers block many times already, coupled with the fact that I'm indeed working on a large map, hasn't exactly been great for motivation.
But seeing some of the great maps you guys put out (like Vondur's new map, which was made in four days!), and knowing that there's still a thriving community for ol' Quake 1 really helps!
Thanks
Likewise, thanks for the quick replies...
I tried the different vis / light and am using darkplaces... It seems to be working ok now.
I've put the errors down to poor mapping skills, I seem to have found and eradicated the leaks. I still get errors in the compile, however they don't seem to be affecting the map in game.
I've done 50% of the geometry, then I'm on to the texturing, entities and polishing.
There Is No Best Way
#10480 posted by negke on 2010/11/08 20:10:49
Each one has benefits and disadvantages on various stages of the building process. I usually map in a room-for-room manner, sometimes doing lighting on the fly, sometimes making the entire map and only then add lights. Brushwork and detailing are my favorite part.
Laying down the basic layout first is useful for DM maps; for SP maps one presumably doesn't have a 100% clear picture of the end result until later. Let SP maps grow or evolve as you work on them. Though I got to admit it's also fun (less demanding maybe) if you have a basic map where you don't have to worry about layout/gameplay and can go bezerk on the details.
enliten: Doesn't sound so much like a portal error as Ricky explained than a simple case of 'too many polys visible in a software engine' - assuming you're using Winquake. It's hard to give you a proper tip in this case, it depends on a couple of factors. You might just need some geometry for visblocking (e.g. L-shaped corridors).
Going Well
Hey guys, the map is going really well. I've discovered and fixed all but 2 warnings in the 'compile'. All I have to do is add lights, spawnpoints and then polish it a little...
However I've now encountered a new problem... One of my teleporters doesn't teleport to the correct destination. I've checked the target name and it's correct. Any ideas?
Thanks again for all the help.
Ignore Previous Question
human error...
had a brush running through it which was difficult to see in the view i was using.
#10483 posted by Trinca on 2010/11/10 22:01:02
:)
normal noob error we all do then all the time :p
BengtLightColoured New Light Tool : )
#10484 posted by mechtech on 2010/11/14 15:00:25
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/tools/windows/BengtLightColoured.zip
Fast,Fast,Fast.
Tyrelite extra 39sec
BengtLightColoured extra 21sec
Found 1 thing using Quoth 2. It will stop on error about missing 3 values for color. If you use things like func_togglewall or light_marsh and set the color. Just add two zeros and all is good.
Thanks MH
BengtLightColoured New Light Tool : )
#10485 posted by mechtech on 2010/11/14 15:00:26
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/tools/windows/BengtLightColoured.zip
Fast,Fast,Fast.
Tyrelite extra 39sec
BengtLightColoured extra 21sec
Found 1 thing using Quoth 2. It will stop on error about missing 3 values for color. If you use things like func_togglewall or light_marsh and set the color. Just add two zeros and all is good.
Thanks MH
Double Click On Submit BAD Sorry
#10486 posted by mechtech on 2010/11/14 15:01:29
Light Speed
#10487 posted by negke on 2010/11/14 15:14:43
Another way to speed up the lighting process is to add -gate 1. This will make it finish considerably faster, without any visible artifacts or downsides.
Mechtech
#10488 posted by Spirit on 2010/11/14 19:16:54
That is not the final version!
And it is always nice to tell the developer about such problems.
I guess those entities use a single integer to determine a "distinct" index (eg 1=red, 2=blue)? Don't those entities use "color", not "_color" though? I wonder what would be a good way to allow this too.
#10489 posted by necros on 2010/11/15 20:01:44
after using mh's version of aguirre's light for a while now, i've noticed it seems to be less prone to that ugly washed out colour effect that used to happen in the old coloured light utils.
is this something mh did or is it just a side effect of aguirre's new lighting (delay 5 vs delay 2)?
either way, it's very nice. i'll probably be using it from now on.
i have noticed it crashes if you try to do a -onlyents update for switchable lights though.
I Mailed MH Both Those Error Reports Now.
#10490 posted by Spirit on 2010/11/15 21:30:16
#10491 posted by mh on 2010/11/15 22:25:02
Fixed. :)
I guess I really should release this now; the final (I hope!) version is *MUCH* improved from the one you've currently got. Gimme a few minutes...
#10492 posted by mh on 2010/11/15 22:27:37
> is this something mh did or is it just a side effect of aguirre's new lighting (delay 5 vs delay 2)?
It's mostly from the original code being pretty damn good to begin with.
#10493 posted by mh on 2010/11/15 22:38:32
Here we go: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/tools/windows/BengtLightColouredR2.zip
Hopefully this addresses all the problems with the first version. Please check out the readme for release 2 (included in the zip) as it contains some important info about why the timer display is the way it is, by the way.
#10494 posted by necros on 2010/11/16 02:56:57
1:52 for 2.6G (billion?) casts. (-soft -gate 5.0)
http://necros.quaddicted.com/temp/oranges.jpg
it's pretty much perfect right now. i can't think of a single thing wrong with it atm.
and on top of that there's coloured sunlight too (which i totally wasn't expecting, so a nice surprise! :))
if anyone's been holding off on coloured lights, there's literally no reason not to use this now. combines aguirre's great lighting tricks with multicore and colours.
n1 man. :)
Mh
#10495 posted by negke on 2010/11/16 09:57:36
Nice work. But I think it would be better to credit Bengt Jardrup rather than aguirRe in the readme, as his tools and engines are more immediately known under that name while hardly anyone outside the dev boards can make the connection to the nick.
Help With Ambient_sounds
#10496 posted by Futur4 on 2010/11/16 13:09:46
Hi.. it's not clear to me if ambient sounds in Quake must be triggered to start looping !?
And why the hell there's no an Ambient_generic as in Half-Life ??
so what about if I want a custom music play allthetime in my map?
Please answerme
Ambients
#10497 posted by ijed on 2010/11/16 15:57:53
In id1 start on and can't be removed.
There are mods that add additional functionality for custom sounds like Quoth or RMQ, although only the former has a devkit document so far.
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