|Posted by Cocerello on 2014/06/12 11:21:29|
|Creepily awesome maps by Cocerello, Digs, DOOMer, Fifthelephant, Scampie and Sock.
Please note that one map requires SoA and another requires DoE.
* Sock, don't take it to heart so easily, they are just comments, at least from my part. I am grateful that you did a start map for us all, as it adds a lot to the pack, but if there is an issue about it, i think that it is my duty to report it.
Now that i think deeply about it, the issue about my SoA and DoE maps, is hard to work around now that we have a good start map. The only way i thought off is by making my area 128 units larger and putting a second message after the ''Designer - Cocerello'' saying ''There is also SoA and DoE maps'' or ''Manually load the SoA and DoE maps.
* Spirit, i think i got it. Is it the fact that there is 3 mods in the same map-pack? Sock's, SoA and DoE?
Thanks you very much for the demos. They were interesting to see, with many interesting situations. I see that you nailed almost perfectly the way i thought someone would play it, except for your behaviour about running past shalraths and other monsters :) (i see that you did the same with shalraths in some of the other speedmaps). Bet you were surprised when the monster followed you to the other side of the bridge. Glad that you saw easily the SK.
It is a pity that you couldn't enjoy the maps and finish them, the map ''b'' has a big surprise at the end.
you could have given yourself ''impulse 9'' when you found out that map ''b'' is a continuation and Sock didn't notice that fact. I don't mind you using that cheat, but i see that you got tired of dying. It is a pity because you got the hang of it at the end.
About the toughness, it is ammo related. Is right that, as usual with my maps these ones are a bit tight in ammo, but in this case it is more of an issue of you missing ammo by a hair breath.
This is because Sock's ammo models don't blend well with my map's darkness as well as ID models so they are harder to see. Even i had trouble finding the ammo boxes even though i know well where each one is. Also, one more ammo box dissapeared from the map for unknown causes. In total there is 60-80 shells that were gone for you. Play my map without pak1.pak, you'll see every ammo box easily.
Frigging Loved The Theme. Cheers
Got though a few tonight
Scampies finale was really novel and fun.
Digs had some great gameplay.
Cocerello's was interesting, but a little tough (normal).
* Stevenaaus, deleting pak1.pak will get rid of the toughness. The map doesn't take into account that file and breaks the map.
* Onetruepurple. that is a hard one. I don't know which is the best choice: If you delete the start map (but keep the .lit and .map files) there is no more issues with the SoA and DoE maps, but that start map adds a lot and it is a pity to delete it.
Also deleting pak1.pak for everyone is unfair for Sock.
If you keep the pak1.pak only for Sock map so it doesn't break any of the maps we have to keep Sock's map outside the start map, which it is unfair for him as he created the start map.
A Salomonical idea anyone?
Played the first few so far. Coce's and Digs' could easily be full releases in my opinion, really impressive. I first died quickly on Cocerello's map but it was due to the unlit models from sock. I removed them and suddenly saw all the ammo as intended. Awesome end map which (though hordy) is a good example for a non-boss endgame. Demos when I played them all.
spirit take a flying fucking leap.
Demos (minus socks map cos I played it before) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/sm175_daz_demos.rar
these were recorded on Socks updated download.
Scampie's map was really cool. Probably my favourite of the pack followed closely by Socks. I liked some of Digs map (the idea of falling on the buttons then having to work back around) but the layout confused me quite a bit.
I can't remember who's map it was, might have been Doomer, but the red quake buttons were used for pressing button and shoot buttons. I kept on trying to shoot the press buttons and vice versa. Probably want to use seperate textures for each :)
Confusion, Mod Variety In This Pack, Etc
I will admit I was initially put off of playing all the maps because it seemed like a lot of bother having to check every map to see if I needed a mod loaded to play it, then check if I had that mod, then load and play the level.
using mods in speedmaps is no problem I just think perhaps having so many different mods required for one sessions maps is a bit much.
Maybe coordinate which mod to use in future packs? For instance a quoth session or <whatever> mod.
Let's not break established conventions just to force wateralpha, how's that sound.
Please note that they were completed with the version of the pack that was uploaded first, so depending on the version you have, you'll need to change the name of the .bsp files.
And now, for the comments...
Three letters .... W O W. What an astounding pack of maps!!! And all of them with a strong personality.
***Don't read farther if you haven't played the maps. spoilers ahead.***
***Don't read further if you despise walls of text*** :)
* Digs: very complete, more like a palace (metal koohoo palace (very good use of the metal textures)) than a castle or a temple to me, could perfectly be a proper release. The brushwork remind me of Unreal or Quake 3 one. That layout with well done choices and compact and diferenciated rooms enough so you don't get lost. The infightings, even if they seem unfair at first, make for an intense and apreciated combat. Ammo quantity and placement is almost perfect for my tastes. Maybe the part after the GK door till the end isn't up to the rest of the map's level but that is a minor issue.
If what happened with the shalrath using the teleporter in my first demo is intended you need to be rewarded a medal.
* Doomer: very speedmap-like, has an interesting layout, and has a good atmosphere wih the pace of the combats but it isn't completely clear where to go next. The final combat is very good, but it you teleport 2 monsters to the side at the same time as the shamblers it would perfect, as it adds variation to the combat. Just 2 pitiful knights or dogs are enough, just so the secure position of the player behind the rocks is threatened. The lighting and texture alignment andusage lacks a bit too, but this is an speedmap and it can be seen that you used the small time you had well. Keep up the good work!
* Fifth: very well done open combats. The exterior could have used some more greeby brushwork or contrasted lighting to make up, but ... who cares! What is inside is superb, the brushwork and lighting fit it well, and the combats are enjoyable. There is some minor downsides on them, the tartabies aren't frightening as long you put a RL in the map and the scrags at the last fight were a bit spread out, also the ammo was a bit over but OK.
I got used to monster infighting from my map and dig's, so you can see what i did with the poor ogres efforts. They are probably now pulling their hairs out out of frustration and anger ... haha.
* Scampie: the most Quakey of all, architectural style and combats wise. The layouts are interestingly simple but effective and the way you use the terrain very well thought and combines with the combats, that's probably too why the secrets are so well placed and fun to find.
I found particularly interesting the broken columns room no for the combat but for the brushwork and how you use it. It is also something to highlight the combat at the SK doors and the humour so typical in Quake in the form of text messages. Downsides ... maybe the lighting, but the brushwork doesn't need a contrast to look good, it already does, or give it some more curves or just some more non axis-aligned faces.
It is a pity i died just when i needed 2 more kills, but i think that combat is still very good, with aparently no blind spots to hide. Maybe with less shalraths ...
It is a pity too that i played it without the lit file ... now that i tried it, i withdraw my previous comments about the lighting. How the hell you achieved that with colored lighting? A greened dark gray color? I know the answer of this one but ... Why haven't you tried to do something similar with contrasted non-coloured lighting? Tell me your secret.
* Sock: To summarize, good map, Sock, go ahead and transform it into a proper release, it is the best-looking and hard-worked of the bunch. Its nemesis: too big expectations, but that can be fixed with more playtesting.
With what it seems like inspiration from ne_ruins, kinn_bastion and mstalk, this isn't a speedmap, no even a turtlemap, in every aspect of it: big sized in terms of time needed to play it, it isn't very experimental, it uses mainly textures outside of what were used in Vondur's map, nor hasty in contruction and too good looking, so i will rate it as a what it look to me: a proper release. That is also unfair for Sock, as the map clearly lacks the time, polishment and beta testing of a proper release, but i'll do it.
The architecture of the castle is superb, it fits what you wanted very well. The atmosphere is very ne_ruins like. The lighting is good and adequate and the combats fun and varied. The fog adds an isolated and eerie atmosphere. Loved the secrets placement, specially the yA trick. It probably need a key texture on the GK door, as it isn't completely clear what it is, can be misanderstood as the portal the player comes from.
The layout is well planned, i loved the way you use the verticality to add layout details, map progression and secrets. But has flaws, i am not saying that choices in the route are bad, quite the contrary, but after the big setup and the expectation the rites created, the fact that you can bypass one of them and drop unavertly at that one is bad.
There is some combats, mainly at the Rite of gold, that even though are fun, it feels that they lack something. Probably the fact that the ammo is overdone and the big guns are given has an influence on it and probably too that the expectations after looking at the top-notch brushwork and architecture where so high that i expected too combat on that level or higher. About the fog, even though it adds to the atmosphere A LOT, the fact that only works at a distance is a downside as i don't see the fog as fog because is thin and seeing that the colour changes with the distance is weird if there isn't an explanation, isn't beliable, with coloured lighting i think that you could have gotten a similar effect without that downside.
... And Again...
... no screenshots... god damnit !!!
Why screenhots? Look bsp's ;)
Make ones yourself to put in the first post.
Don't you guys follow my blog!?
Also, not seeing a lot of comments on my map. I suppose it's bland maybe? It's just a horde map in a lot of ways I suppose.
I did try and just make the biggest and most open map I could (and the textures seemed very mayan or aztec so I tried to stick to that theme).
nice start map dude.
I can see why people are getting angry. Sock's angry because he put effort into making those maps and Spirits angry cause everything about this speedmap makes it a ball ache to post on quaddicted.
People need to see both sides man. The maps are just a bit of fun, no need to get angry really.
Come on, guys, what Socks has done is just incredible, especially for a speedmap run. His start map adds so much to the pack, he doesn't deserve any crittic at all. Usually, speedmaps aren't so classy and don't deserve any favor from him.
The simple fact that he cared enough to make this awesome start map should be considered as a **huge** compliment to all mappers that participated to this projet.
I guess some peeps are simply jaleous of his incredible talent.
Two beers (no, three !) to Sock !
* Barnak, that isn't the problem. His awesome work is being recognized.
* Fifth, I am not angry. i just want to fix the pack so it isn't broken anymore.
We all know that sock put a lot of work into both the map and into the start map and I am GRATEFUL for that, but the choices he made about making a start and pack everything causes MANy problems, without Sock knowing. It is just a matter of correcting and fixing them, but now that Sock is out, that won't be possible.
Spirit and I are the ones most affected by it.
For Spirit and me was an issue of text files being hidden, causing that the player gets a bad experience as the player won't notice the specification or requirements of the maps
For me is an issue that he added something non intended into the maps that changes them: two of my maps are broken with it i several ways and everyone that plays them gets a bad aftertaste, as I do, as it pains me when i see their demos while i think of how bad it is going for them. And the other 4 maps are put on a second rank. The issue about ammo boxes affect all the maps but I am the most affected since i have the darkest map.
I expect that this explanation ends this mountain that grew from a little grain of sand. The problem isn't that as you are picturing it.
To solve your problem, how about this? You put my SoA and DoE maps on another entry, and we keep sock paks apart from the rest of the maps in a different folder with proper indications about to put it into a different folder and the things that mod breaks. This way, everyone has their own choice, my maps aren't broken, Sock still has his start and pak files if someone still wants them, and you, Spirit, have only two mods to deal with (ID and sock's)
I don't mind doing it that way, as it seems that no one will play those four maps. At least they got me some info: if i were to make a full-fledged SoA or DoE map, almost no one would play it. If still this don't solve it, don't upload at all my SoA and DoE maps into Quaddicted.
What do you think about that?
PS: sorry in advance for the triple post, but i want to end everything and have to make a visible announcement.
DELETE Pak1.pak And Start.bsp Before Playing The Maps ...
...except for Sock's map. They break some maps, and hurts others.
I know I am being unfair to Sock and this words and actions will leave scars but I can't stand anymore seeing people playing a broken map.
I would like to politely ask METLSLIME or a moderator if they could add this warning in the first post. I expect that to end this.
If not the other solution would be of uploading to the first post Onetruepurple's option or the one i asked Spirit his opinion about in the previous post.
New Pack For Final Release
I have updated the zip file at the top of the post and have removed my maps from the zip file. I want to withdraw my maps from this release.
@everyone, please use this as the final release and lets move on.
u R not hax0r enuff to deleet my fielz!!!1
Are You Sure, Sock?
I understand that you want to move on, as this isn't a nice moment for us, but we can work to fix this. This just got overboard in a silly way.
In fact i made a zip file that i do think everyone can be satisfied with.
It has all the files, everything organized into its own folder. Sock has his own, id1 maps their own, soa their own and doe their own. If you want to play with the paks, you can, if you want to play without them, it is organized to.
The text files have instructions to place everything and tells of what you get with each option.
I understand that you want to move on
Yes I do, please go with the final zip I have linked above, I will do something else with my maps and release them another time.
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