How much dough would have to come together for you to consider this viable?
The community seems quite small, kind of depends on what sort of income you're expecting.
I'd give $10 easily anyways for another Zendar like experience.
$10 sounds like a reasonable sum to pay for a high quality map.
Count Me In Sock.
cool idea. I'd be willing to put in $20-$30.
Curious, do you know how many downloads there were of Zendar? Spirit, do you keep track of download counts on quaddicted?
I Have To Be Really Honest.
I love your maps, they're brilliant, probably the best. Would I pay $10 for a single map? No.
Even though I can complete episode 1 of quake in less than 10 minutes and I think your map took me 30 minutes on the first try.
You released multiple maps last year. Each episode is 7 or 8 maps, I think I would $15-20 for a sock episode.
Get capnbubs to finish remaking the bloody quake monster models and I'll drop $30 on it.
Even if you made a whole episode that took less time to complete than my first run of Zendar I'd perceive the value to be higher. Maybe it's psychological?
Why not get 2-3 more mappers and make a whole new thing? Also, what are the legal ramifications for selling quake maps?
I'll Chuck In Some Money
Not for the maps you're gonna make, but for the maps you've already made.
I was thinking if I can get 50 people interested paying 10 dollars each then that would be a good amount for the work involved.
@fifth, that is a shame you feel that way, but it is your choice. I would like to see if I can do a single high quality map project first. I want to make a map that people can replay several times, has proper route choices and gives players the chance to explore.
I have done freelance map projects before and the money I was paid was for the creation of the map source file. As far as legal ramifications, the funding will be for my artistic time, the map + source is released for free at the end just like before. The people that contribute to the project get a chance to be involved with the project.
All Feedback Welcome
sock logic: the people who disagree don't post because the thread is clearly not for them
I want to hear all views on this idea. If you don't agree with what I am suggesting then say so, I would prefer to hear feedback (good/bad) now. This is the reason for the thread, lets discuss it.
You already proved you can make a single high quality map, several times over.
I don't feel too bad about what I said because I think it's purely a subjective standpoint. I'd literally pay more money for multiple maps that would take less time to complete than 1 giant map.
I'm just that crazy.
This Is A Great Idea
More maps, and the authors getting paid to create them.
I'd happily copy the idea, if I could get anywhere near the same interest as Sock's levels.
Have you tried posting on other FPS forums? It's a pretty small group here, even if you guess positively at an extra 50% lurkers.
I agree with FifthElephant in that I would rather have a number of small maps than a large one. The point I want to make is that the exact same gameplay cut into small pieces and presented as multiple maps/an episode would be more valuable to me than one large map. Firstly this is a tactic salesmen use; giving you a list of stuff instead of one product, but secondly, I prefer my quake in chewable bites.
However, if you set up a thing like you described, I will be putting money into it, regardless of if it is one level or more. A sock map is still a sock map. :)
The sort of perks that would be attractive to me would be like, a name in a donator's list in a secret room, or getting to hand you a .map of a secret room to incorporate or the chance to beta test.
so what is the aim exactly? Another Zendar type map or someting a bit different?
Don't Change The Transaction Type From Social To Monetary
Hobbyist mappers create maps for any of the following reasons: intrinsic pleasure, notoriety, sharing, and building a portfolio.
Adding money in to the mix will make your map(s) a different kind of thing: a monetary transaction.
$500 is a lot of cash, but it's also nowhere close to what you'd make as a salaried mapper for a modern game.
OTOH, more Q1SP is always a good thing...
Sock's Maps Are A Different Kind Of Thing...
And I would gladly contribute something for them :)
I'd pay for an episode. Not sure about a single map, probably $10 max I guess. As a comparison, I paid $15 for l4d2, got a full game, all the dlc's, and access to 100s of high quality custom campaigns for it. There's 100s of hours of content.
But for an entire q1 episode, $500 isn't much when you consider the hours you'd have to put into it. Could always try kickstarter type websites, though I think you'd need to come up with something more unique for the masses than another standard map.
The main reason for paying from end users perspective is it makes you obligated to finish it.
I Would Be Willing To Pay For A Sock Episode Too
I am in China, and my salary is not very high. But I love Quake, and sock's maps are always of good quality. So I think I would be willing to pay around $5~$10 for a sock episode. But please make them work with Darkplaces!
Just considering the idea in a vacuum, there are several mappers with track records (including sock) that I'd tip a few bucks if they put out the hat on indiegogo or Patreon or whatever.
I'm a little concerned about community drama. And to some extent about precedent and expectations. But I don't think it's an outlandish idea; it could be considered kind of a grassroots version of what Valve does for TF2 or CS:GO mappers.
FWIW, by comparison I generally pay $5-$10 for complete indie games. Another data point: the in-game TF2 store sells "map stamps" for $1 each; I think that most of each stamp sale goes to the map's creator.
Would Be Interested
$5-10 for a single, large SP map ofthe same quality as your previous efforts.
$20 for an episode or mod perhaps.
Up to $50 for a Q1/Lovecraft inspired game/tc with some Dark Souls inspiration ;)
If I had a steady job I would easily contribute to this idea, thinking that I've gotten way more out of Zendar even if I spent $20 on it, than the average 3 pints I get for that price. Unfortunately I'm on the edge of asking for retroactive contributions myself (lol, note, not yet that desperate, nor assuming any deserving).
I've gotten way more out of Zendar even if I spent $20 on it, than the average 3 pints I get for that price.
This is a good measurement of enjoyment.
I'd absolutely pay 4 pints per 1 new sock map.
I Wouldn't Pay For Q1SP Content
Because of tradition and implications for the future.
If you enjoy mapping and have a desire to create a map, then you can a find of working on it as a hobby in your spare time, even if that means it'll take longer to finish.
If your activity has to be finacially viable, any kind of professional (freelance?) work is more suited to the task. There aren't that many people here, so while $500 (or however much) would make a nice tip, it won't be enough to finance a living for several months.
I would be inclined to pledge to a standalone ITS game (with an actual proper budget in the ten-thousands) but not for a Quake map. Only if it included randomly hidden loot objects though. ;)
ericw: I don't have dedicated download counters, only what the webserver logs show. zendar1d.zip had about 450 downloads from Quaddicted. Majority surely happened on sock's official download link though.
Quantity Vs Quality
I Don't expect everyone to like this idea, it is perfectly fine with me to express your opinions in this thread. I want to know if there are enough people interested to fund the idea? There is no denying that everyone loves things for free, especially if it is something that is good quality.
What do people think about a book being better value than a short story? Is it really a subconscious things that quantity is always better than quality? Is it better to have a book padded out than a perfectly lean short story?
@raptore, being able to include your own secret is something that would be a perk. Someone either thinks of an idea or has a rough outline in a map file and I included it in the relevant location painted in the correct level style.
@nitin, I was thinking about another hub map with multiple route/key objectives and places to explore. Probably go for another horde style ending as trick bosses (e1m7) are not much fun.
@inertia, adding donations to the map process does not change the quality of my maps. I have done professional level design for years and my hobby work is no different.
@doomer, I can certainly create a rtlight file, include some extra shaders for liquids and setup some particles but I have no plans to create full HD assets.
@than, that indeed would be a dream come true, to create my own Q1/Lovecraft inspired game/tc with some Dark Souls inspiration! :)
@negke, The TF2/CSGo Valve community reward mappers with donations (hats/stamps) why can't the Quake community embrace such a change for quality maps?