|Posted by negke on 2013/08/04 23:04:07|
|An oldschool-flavored, medium-sized stronghold surrounded by rocks and lava - made by Matthias Worch, author of the all-time Q1SP classic Beyond Belief.
The map was originally started in 2008 with the intention of casually revisiting Quake mapping and creating a tribute to this undead classic. You may have seen blog posts about its development in the QExpo 2008 booth and on his website. However, due to various reasons development came to a halt shortly after the first beta. Eventually, MW gave me the permission to fix it up and release it, if only to make me stfu... :)
It was designed to be played in Beyond Belief, but the level can also be run in stock Quake. The only (slight) difference is in the boss fight.
Thanks a lot to MW for making this map and allowing for it to be released!
Also thanks to the testers and everyone else involved.
Now you have to make the Quaddicted entry because I had no idea.
stock quake, fitzquake engine demo.
I'm tired and I played a little conservatively.
This Map Is Beyond Belief
Everything going on here oozes 'old-school quake', yet still feels fresh as hell. Awesome :D
here's a demo of me dying repeatedly.
I don't know how interested MW is in demos, but just in case I'd say if you're going to record one, please make sure to set sv_protocol 15 beforehand for maximum convenience.
Quake 2 Maps
Would you consider making the Q2 maps mentioned on your site available?
A very old school look with an interesting layout. I love what he did with the spawns, finally a good use for them! :P Some really good secrets, my favourite probably the YA. The final battle was odd but I think that is because everyone expects the boss to die a certain way. Sorry no demo, got no idea how to change protocol :/
roulffff what a worchless map !
will dl soon
demo on the way.
Nice! Didn't like the boss fight and I did not see the blood when I first shot the button. Really liked the rest though! http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/bbelief2008-normal-Spirit.7z
Very old school indeed! Great use of spawns that I don't think I've ever seen before but seems totally obvious now :) Good secrets too, found 5/7 on my first run through.
I wasted all my ammo on the cthon and then had to do whole gold key room with my axe (luckily that room was mostly puzzles) but it worked out in the end :)
demo (hard, 17 mins iirc) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/daz_bb2008.rar
Keep in mind Beyond Belief has a shootable Chthon. I added the button mostly as a savety measure for all the specialists here who would accidentaly play on ID1. At the time I didn't want to use too many hacks, or only simple ones, so there's no info_notnull boss. I explicitly mentioned the map is playable both ways, because people might want to play with the updated progs (BB is v1.0) and therefore accept it as a trade off.
In BB, the boss even has the potential to confuse players, too: if they think they need to kill him from the church and in the process forget all about the GK/door.
Kudos to Spirit for missing the biggest shootable button in the history of Quake mapping!
I missed the button as well! The problem is the boss, Chthon was introduced by ID as a monster you can ONLY kill with lightning. Changing the game play does not work unless the monster looks different or behaves different. Otherwise all existing Quake players will be confused and that is the majority of people who will be download this map nowadays.
The second problem is you have a Quad on a rock next to the final gate. I saw this and *assumed* oh I have to kill Chthon with damage otherwise why is the Quad there?
The third problem is why would I shoot at a button to kill a boss? Sure the button is huge sitting behind the boss (who is distracting me from looking around by throwing fireballs) but it does not make any sense...
I was trying to stay as close to the original design as possible. Since you have to shoot the boss in BB, the fight remains shooting-based on ID1 as well, achieved with relatively simple means. I guess it shouldn't have been mentioned it can be played both ways. As a safety measure the setup is fine, as an equal alternative maybe not so much. Though I do feel a little thinking out of the box can make this work still - think of it as a puzzle-fight perhaps.
Though I do feel a little thinking out of the box can make this work still - think of it as a puzzle-fight perhaps.
It would have been awesome if the boss was protected by something in the lava that was glowing. This mechanic could have been introduced earlier on in the level by showing a glowing object protecting another monster. So when you get to the boss you see the glowing objects in the lava and understand what to do. Then you could have used the lower platform with the RL ammo and the upper area by the gate as different angles to reach the objects in the lava.
I'll be eternally grateful to negke for finishing and packaging up this level, which had turned into a forgotten step child along the way. Back when I made this level, in 2008, I wasn't doing much professional level design anymore, and started this level as something to balance my professional life. I created most of the map while watching the 2008 Olympics (a throwback to 1996, when I did a lot of Doom mapping for Memento Mori 2 while watching the Atlanta games).
Since when I started the map I've had three kids, been very busy professionally, and have gone back to game design full time (so I did not feel like doing *more* level design after I got home). The title of BBelief2008 became a bit of a sad joke.
I haven't played this final revised map yet (only a in-progress version negke sent a couple of months ago), so I can't comment on any specific areas. I'll try to watch some demos later. The idea behind the final boss fight (which never got fully implemented and is causing some justifiable confusion now) was a twist on the original Beyond Belief ending. In BBelief, you have to physically kill Chton, a change from stock Quake that was explicitly called out in the level. You can only do this if you use the BBelief packages with that QuakeC behavior. For this map, I was envisioning different ways of dealing with the end boss - kill him via conventional weapon means, or fight your way to a pentagram, jump into the lava, and electrocute him via lightning while you we're invulnerable. None of that messaging was ever completed, and I didn't create stand-alone Chton behavior to ship alongside the map, either. So it's probably a bit convoluted.
Thanks for playing, I'm glad that the work I did found an audience after all these years.
Ironically enough, I don't even exactly remember how I used the Spawns in the level ;) But I do remember playing with unconventional ways of dealing with Zombies, Quad Damager etc. when thinking up the map. I liked the twist of encountering zombies without having found the GL or RL, and having to dispose of them via quad-SG, Spawn explosions etc. At some point, I was going to create a new mini Quad that could be scattered around the map regularly. You'd encounter an area with Zombies, know you can't pass, and go searching for the mini Quad (which would only last for a shorter time).
Spawns and explo-crates (which I never deployed, I think) were a riff on that same theme.
Thanks For The Release
I played it in id1 :( because I was launching it through steam :( because I was trying directq :)
didnt know that bbelief was an actual mod, I always thought it was just maps.
I loved the secrets I found btw!
I tend to die in that first lava area, there seems to be a missing bridge/walkway after i killed the 2 ogres.
Yeah, Because It's NOT A QUOTH MAP
So don't play it in that mod! Having said that, I have no idea why the walkway doesn't appear again there. I also noticed another issue where the two ammo boxes on the platform behind the GK door fall out of the level. I vaguely remember encountering a similar problem with DP in an earlier version of the map (and engine), but afaik that one was fixed.
Something for Preach to look into/clarify?
Negke,I�m Playing It With The Custom BB Folder From Quaddicted...
Latest QS version, since my new machine hates Fitz.
There is a bug in Quoth too...I wrote a whole extra developer mode option for Quoth which prints a log of all the triggers that fire, in the hope of debugging this issue. It turns out that wasn't necessary: as soon as I turned on developer mode an existing warning explained what was going on.
If you create a trigger entity and then delete all the brushes, sometimes your map editor screws up and leaves the entity part in the map file. This manifests as a point entity with no model, always at the origin of the map. If this happens with a trigger_hurt, then it can spell disaster for a player who stands in just the wrong spot, so Quoth tries to detect these triggers and removes them.
Of course, in this map it breaks down when it removes a brushless trigger_once. The trigger_once here is restoring the bridge, but by acting as a trigger_relay instead. In the next release of Quoth, we'll revise this behaviour so that detected rogue triggers are not removed, but just rendered non-solid so that touching them does nothing, but they can perform other actions.
Onto the map, first play demo:
(I die stupidly right at the end)
Awesome map, so old school it drives a yellow bus with gothic arch windows (with thanks to http://achewood.com/index.php?date=06232006
). Great use of the zombies, I recommend everyone try out the brute force way of getting the silver key on a second playthrough - it's hard but not impossible. I could tell that I had missed the nailgun somewhere, but I managed ok without it. Ammo and health balance was fine, I was a bit low on health in places but never so much I couldn't fight through.
Build is very consistent, lots of the flavour of classic ID maps with all the planks and metal pillars, but with more ambition in the outside areas. I liked the solution to make the boss killable in regular quake too, very unusual!
Found The Q2 Maps
OK, I see that the Q2 maps are available for download from the original site. Somewhat confusing but I found them.
Not Really A Mod...
Spirit: BBelief had a custom Progs, was wasn't really a mod. The only thing I modified were Chton (using somebody else's source) and the ending text. You can play the entire pack (except the last level) with stock Quake.
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