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Q1SP: Bad Dark Cistern
More remade Quake:
A medium-sized brick/cistern-themed level for single player and deathmatch based on the Quake's stock levels DM5 and DM6, with an underwater DM4 beneath, using the GPL sources.

The maps are joined together retaining the original layouts, and they are touched up with additional detail. Gameplay is pretty much the same deal as the other DM->SP conversions I made - prepare for some good carnage.

It was started as a simple semi-turtlemap project to be released for Christmas, but got delay until now for various reasons and urgent Dragonborn duties. I tried to keep it relatively simple which could be held for or against it (e.g. didn't change the original maps where I probably should have), and the new detail impacts on the performance considerably in comparision. Oh well.

Screenshots:
Splashy
Pumpy
Pipey

Download:
dm456sp.zip

FISHMOTHERFUCKINGFIX This fixes the "solid fish" bug and makes them now non-solid like other monsters so they don't block the water tunnels.

Have fun.
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Than 
Note that unlike what we talked about, this map is not a complete remake/remix like dm3rmx, or what RMQ does. It's just a touched-up combination of the the id sources. Of course, considering how long it took me to finish it, I could/should have made one from scratch just as easily...

Jaromir83: The only packet overflow issue I'm aware of in DMC3 can occur in dm3m8. There's a button behind the start slipgate to enable a rudimentary corpse-removal system to cure it (needs to be activated when entering the level). Fitzquake080 still uses the old limits, try version 0.85 instead. This will fix any of such issues. Btw. gl_texturemode needs additional data, either a number or the full renderer name. 
Another Jewel... 
Great idea to combine these three DM levels into one!

The textures were from the old school set, but the architecture (arches, ribs, etc.) and pipe details made the overall map feel really new. There were a few awkward areas layout-wise, but that probably has more to do with the original maps than anything.

The gameplay was fresh, as always, with the water pump part hunt, bouncy bad guys, and the submerged arena. The paper roll credits were funny and, hopefully, Than will enjoy the homage that Daz passed by in his video.

Awesome! Awesome! Awesome! 
Yeah 
Building from scratch but following the layout is much faster. 
 
> Note that unlike what we talked about,
> this map is not a complete remake/remix
> like dm3rmx, or what RMQ does.

thats how i like it - not overloaded with 'new' stuff 
 
Great work as usual from negke. A fine blend of old and new, but still retaining that classic Quake feel - just the way I like it. Really good build quality as well, I enjoyed taking in all the architecture as I went along.

skill 3 demo

(forgot the fishy patch, and got instakilled by a spawn once, never seen that before) 
Spawn Insta-kill.. 
...would that be the same as the Fiend jump insta-kill bug then?? 
 
Dogs can insta-kill too. It's rare but it happens. 
What Bug 
Its fixed 120 T_radiusdamge, its coded to instakill unless you have armor.

Calling jumptouch several times is very unlikely to kill, its only 10+10*rnd. 
Insta Kills 
Considering how erratic the spawn jump behavior is, I could imagine it can lead to such an effect if bad comes to worse. I noticed dog super jumps too, but they usually only do a moderate amount of extra damage. Fiend super jumps on the other hand are a real problem. I had to swap fiends and shambler in the GK area, because they would do it quite easily when jumping from the stairs or landing close to the edge of the bridge. I changed that after getting gibbed by one of them despite having 150 health + at least 100 yellow armor. 
Re 58 
that's not the insta-kill bug.

the insta-kill bug happens when a leaping monster (dog, fiend, tarbaby) lands on top of the player and then deal the hit damage every frame until the player and monster are no longer touching.
if you're getting more than 10 fps, you pretty much die immediately. 
Berntsen 
Nice one. No problems whatsoever even on NM, apart from the spawn thing of course. Only missed one secret and you were so close.

What is Fitzquake 0.86
Necros. 
That's the one, I remember Mindcrime explaining it to me just like that. Why does it happen in some circumstances? 
Quoth The Preach 
The reason it doesn't cancel after one hit can be found in the if(!checkbottom(self) block. This checks if the fiend is properly onground, basically if it's on flat navigable ground. If this is not the case then it's still in the air, or stuck on a steep slope. The inner if statement checks for FL_ONGROUND, which would mean it's on a steep slope. In that case it resets the touch function and goes for another jump.

However, most commonly if checkbottom is false, the fiend is off the ground with no FL_ONGROUND, so it just goes to the return at the bottom of the block without changing the touch function.

Normally when two entities collide side to side and stay in contact they don't get repeat touches called, so even if you run at the fiend which is leaping, you only take one ping of damage. In theory if you could hit it, back off and hit it again you could take damage twice but it's not easy to do that.

When a fiend lands on your head it's a bit different. For some reason quake registers a touch every frame for vertical collisions like this, possibly the gravity code, I couldn't say. But isn't the fiend at rest as soon as it comes to rest on your head? Sadly, standing on an entity doesn't count for checkbottom, and even worse, the sliding bbox effect is caused because you don't get FL_ONGROUND on top of such an entity. So the fiend decides it's in the air the whole time, and you keep getting hit.
 
0.86 
I thought I got it from here, but now that you mention it (and me googling it), I have no idea. Maybe it's this? 
Just Replayed This. 
Comments exactly the same before. The map in general is great. I noticed the fitting together of DM5 and 6 more this time, as well as more of the little details (mostly while hunting for secrets!). Gameplay still good, the bouncing vore and spawn ambushes being a favourite. Got 5/5 secrets too. The underwater bit is still awful, even knowing exactly what to do and quicksaving all the time it is still totally unbalanced and out of place in a map this fun. 
 
Dogs can insta-kill too. It's rare but it happens.

yeah i remember it was happened once playing to the harms way map 
Nice Map 
but I agree with the comments about the DM4 section being frustrating. I cheated to get through that bit even though I knew the suit respawned. Why?

I know the DM4 layout, but you blocked bits off, so it made it harder to figure out where I was an where I needed to go. Also, after I hit the first switch, the exit back into the main atrium didn't open. I later went back and it opened, so I guess I didn't try to go close enough to it for it to trigger, but I was kind of pissed off by then anyway, so I just noclipped around and figured it out. The fish were very annoying too, and although that's just a Quake bug I guess, you could have made it easier to avoid the tunnels getting clogged up with dead fish.

Anyway, other than that it was great, and I liked the way you connected the maps together - it all flowed together very nicely. 
 
i had no qualms with the underwater area. i mean i spent ages down there and kept getting lost but always found my way back to the biosuit in time (clocked the respawn sound straight away too)

i've long since altered my id1 progs to fix that annoying nonsolid delay on the fish but i appreciate that's not something everyone feels inclined to do (even when the fix is provided). i'd suggest a custom game folder/pak distribution but you seem to have a bit of an aversion to them judging by how far you tend to stretch id1 ;) 
 
The fish fix progs I provided makes the fish nonsolid, too. It's unfortunate only the link was edited into the OP without the description from the post. It can be used as an id1 patch or individual mod, however you prefer.

I agree there shouldn't have been fish in the tunnels - I'm so used to non-blocking (even gibbing) fish thanks to my dev progs that I didn't give it enough thought.

I'm still a little puzzled how most of you get lost down there so badly. Feeling 'a bit' lost is okay, intentional, but I'm surprised about how you can get this hopelessly lost in such a small part of a map. I mean usually you do realize you've been in an area (entrance) before, and then try another one, unless your sense of orientation is akin to the monster AI. So my the theory, anyway.
Having said that, I see that the current setup is unnecessairly prone to confusion. The buttons should have been on the walls, not the floor, for better visibility and also linked to the barriers to make it harder to 'clear' the essential rooms without pressing the buttons.

If you happen to know an equally confusing map (not maze), tell me. I'd like to put my own sense of orientation to the test. 
My Shitty Skill3 Demo 
Equally Confusing Map 
e4m2















jk 
 
I think the linking tunnels were a major source of confusion for me. My sense of direction completely went to hell in them and they were all so similar that it quickly became difficult to know which one you were in or if you'd been these before. 
Lostness 
i may have exaggerated a little; i was definitely closer to 'a bit' than 'hopelessly'

one possible explanation for the disorientation is that when underwater, the typical player probably takes less time to examine their surroundings as they will invariably be hurrying through at pace to avoid losing air, often swimming to the first opening they come across rather than properly examining all routes. even with the respawning biosuit it's almost instinct to anyone familiar with the game

the most confusing quake map i can remember is... well actually, e4m3. i still get lost in that to this day ;/ 
Sandy Petersen Ftw 
e4m7 for me. 
Reviewed 
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