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Q1SP: Bad Dark Cistern
More remade Quake:
A medium-sized brick/cistern-themed level for single player and deathmatch based on the Quake's stock levels DM5 and DM6, with an underwater DM4 beneath, using the GPL sources.

The maps are joined together retaining the original layouts, and they are touched up with additional detail. Gameplay is pretty much the same deal as the other DM->SP conversions I made - prepare for some good carnage.

It was started as a simple semi-turtlemap project to be released for Christmas, but got delay until now for various reasons and urgent Dragonborn duties. I tried to keep it relatively simple which could be held for or against it (e.g. didn't change the original maps where I probably should have), and the new detail impacts on the performance considerably in comparision. Oh well.

Screenshots:
Splashy
Pumpy
Pipey

Download:
dm456sp.zip

FISHMOTHERFUCKINGFIX This fixes the "solid fish" bug and makes them now non-solid like other monsters so they don't block the water tunnels.

Have fun.
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Drew 
So much for perfectionism... 
 
it just occurred to me now (sorry it didn't happen earlier): if there was a non-respawning suit before entering, the player would feel less pressured to look for a place to go.
this was the reason i charged in the first time. i was looking for a place to get air. i kept going up and found nothing.
i'm a shitty tester. :( 
Hmm 
I had no idea the suit was respawning till I read the comments. You don't expect respawning items in sp. 
I Played It And Stuff 
Hm. 
1. hard to teach old Quaker's new tricks, I guess - as above comments and "essence of Quake" thread suggest.

2. Visible enough for me, unlike

3. The arrows, I guess. I don'tmostly due to *overall darkness*/water-induced panic/ fish- blocking-my-way-due-to-not-having-update panic/ crappy settings on fitz since I haven't used it in a while. But yeah, maybe the brighter base arrows would have helped.

-I am not an old quake player, by this board's standards, only picking it up in 2001/2 or so. I have NEVER played a single game of Quake DM in my life, and so was extra excited by this release - it's all new to me, basically.

-Respawn delay is about perfect as it is considering the light and the gameplay scenario's players will encounter. IMHO.

-Ammo - maybe because we're willing to axe more fish/knights/etc than medium/ easy players? 
Perfection 
I don't think of perfection in the same way you do I guess. More like in a Darwinian sense, maybe? perfection in filling a specific niche, which can change, and doesn't always work in other niches (eg GTF's niche, apparently).

-Incredibly stylized in an old school way - typically Atypical, as I said before - with close attention to detail
-Non old-school gameplay in many aspects, involving gimmicks and hacks and gameplay situations which frustrate some players just looking for a more typical quake shootemup (epitomized by Lower Forecourt, and perfectly balanced - to me - in recent releases).
-Other stuff.

You work and rework your maps to fit your unique vision incredibly closely, I guess, is more what I mean.
Cool. I sound really cool. Going to bed now. 
Thanks Daz 
Being a die-hard professional on the map now, I expected you to play on Hard, though. Btw. "negkay" is fine. Or something pronouncable like that.

Some of the textures looked rather strange. Is the QRP really lacking so many standard textures (e.g. bricks) or does it have a problem with all uppercase names? Don't think so as then the stock maps wouldn't work with it, either. 
..mmmh 
..looks obnoxious
i'll try anyway though brown/green maps are not my cup of tea 
I Like It 
But I was constantly running out of ammo. That part I admit to not enjoying. The skill level on which this happened, I forget.

The details added were just right. They really seemed to compliment the original maps, and I especially liked the pipes visible from missing sections of the walls.

Down in the underwater area, I didn't drown, but I was constantly lost. Reading the comments above I agree about the arrows. Maybe they could be red instead, and possibly be blinking and making alarming noises.

Despite however much time I've spent playing quake DM, I was not that familiar with the maps, so maybe that is why I got lost.

With the assistance of ye olde ninth impulse, I will probably play again. 
Negkay 
The only hires textures I have installed are Starbucks ones for idbase and his metal ones too. It does look a bit strange on this map I should have disabled them really :P 
Mmkay 
Fun!

The underwtaer section had two fails though. The spawn, and the flow logic of where the air supply was.

Putting spawn in water basically nulls the only advantage the player has on them - being able to dodge out of the way.

The suit wasn't in front of the player, it was below them.

When entering water EVERYONE looks up - that's where the air is, not down. The pipe in the ceiling automatically makes you think 'ah, there must be air up there' when in reality it just loops you round into a watery grave.

I suspect having the suit just floating in the center of the room would have been a good move here - less frantic when trying to get back for it, and it being impossible not to notice upon entering.

Never found where to turn off the waterfall sound. 
Well 
Shouldn't everyone look down - because that's where the fish are? Makes sense about the pipe, and in retrospect a small air pocket certainly would have been helpful. Trivia: initially that pipe was supposed to connect the water area and the pump room as the exit route after getting the control unit.

Waterfall sound: readme 
 
Ah, it being an exit makes more sense actually. Without it being there most players would find the suit right away.

Enemies are good for leading a player to an area, but not for making the player notice what's in it, especially if they're under the additional pressure of drowning.

For the sound it said drainpipe near the start - which left me a bit confused, tbh. I would have expected it near the waterfall, but couldn't find anything there. And for me this: http://www.yorkshirewater.com/medialibrary/Lead%20Images/Drain%20pipe.jpg is a drainpipe. Maybe I'm too British.

BTW I'm not just whinging about the map - it's just harder to comment on good things.

I did like the general ambiance, traps, jumping monsters, spawns hiding under stairs and the concept of drowning DM4.

I noticed the arrows ok. 
Nice Map 
I just finished the map (on easy - I don't want challenge, I want to just enjoy it :)). it's nice, a combination of oldschool with some new elements, but the entire map feels exactly like the original Quake - dark textures, everything looks strange and ancient.

On the first run 80/109 kills and 2/5 secrets. I will try again later and I'll look for all secrets.

Anyway, very nice map, I'd like a lot to see more like this, maybe a remake of start/end maps from original Quake :) 
Negke. 
Sack the testers they are all imbeciles.

Surely no-one is moronic enough to think that dumping the player in an underwater maze full of rotfish that block the way when dead in tight corridors with minimal health and minimal indication of where to go then putting spawn in critical places and finally dumping a vore at the end of that bit when the player can't outswim voreballs AND making the whole section depend on a new respawning biosuit mechanic which isn't part of Quake and isn't introduced to the player is anything approaching a good idea??

Apart from that, cool map. I didn't really pay attention to the name so kept thinking "this looks familiar" and then finally twigged. I like the detail tweaks to the map and the combination of DM5 and DM6. And I generally like the gameplay esp bouncing ogres and some good ambushes. The Quad secret was great too, I got it right at the end when I had 29 health and the exit Shambler left. I just ran away lolz.

One thing it reminded me of - well done vanilla Quake is still great fun. 
Shambler 
drew didn't have any problems with the vore, neither did I. 
 
it just occurred to me now (sorry it didn't happen earlier): if there was a non-respawning suit before entering, the player would feel less pressured to look for a place to go.
Yes - this was kind-of my experience. God damn, that was a tricky maze. And i'm almost at the point of not even looking for secrets on Negke's maps. 2/5 but i noclipped to the ***** quad. Nice to play a map again :) 
Haha 
I **** that ***** beside the gold key door, but didn't find the secret till wandering around lost at the end!

So 3/5 isn't too bad i guess. Was there a Necros was here secret ? 
Shambler 
If you put it that way...
Then again, you chose Hard and you got what you've asked for, so you're probably just butthurt and choadsucking.

But yeah, that area could have used more work still, and more testing. It can serve as an example for future maps.

Putting another suit in the entrance tunnel was actually suggested before, but I considered it unnecessary after the changes I made in the room. 
Difficulty 
Difficulty is PERFECT. I played on skill 0 and I never died, I never was in real danger. So for me it's simply perfect. I played a lot of games and quake maps on easy and almost always I had some problems, that's *not* ok, easy should be easy.

Now if you play on normal it's ok to have some problems, the game should be challenging. And on hard it should be HARD, you shouldn't do any mistake.

On "mightmare" it should be impossible to finish the level without using "pro" skill (rocket jumping, making monsters kill each other, etc). Conventional gameplay should kill you fast. 
Difficulty. 
Was spot on on Hard compared to general custom Quake maps, well balanced, fair challenge, good ambushes, things to keep you on your toes. I enjoyed it. The underwater bit was seperate to that.



P.S. If you don't understand how Nightmare changes the skill from Hard in vanilla Quake, don't comment on it thx xxx 
Looking Forward To Trying This Map 
Will try to play tonight and post comments.

I remember having some chat with Negke a couple of years ago about making a full DM remix of all the maps in the same vein as DM3RMX. Nice to see one of us actually finished something :)

By the way, what were the other DM remixes? I think I must have missed them. 
 
Holy Shit! 
I remember that and can't believe I didn't play it :/

Will try that too if I have time. Negke, you are a mapping machine. 
Deathmatch Classics Vol. 3 
thanks for tip necros/than! some good maps there
OT: how to get rid of Packet Overflow error pls? I use "fitzquake080 -game sm36 +scr_menuscale 2 +scr_conwidth 600 +sv_aim 1 +gl_texturemode +skill 1 -gl_texsort 0 -gl_detail 1 +map dmc3m2" command to run quake. game seems unable to play too many sounds at once
OT: any experiences using hamachi virtual LAN program to play online? we are unable to connect, do I need to use port 12975 to connect? dont have public IP 
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