i'm sorry you didn't really like the theme.

i felt that it would work out ok since it's really really far below ground. that and, like ijed said, magic always has these kinds of mixes... 'frostfire' and such.

i was originally planning to slowly introduce more and more fire themed monsters as you got closer to the fire golem, but due to map limits, i only got to add 2/3 of the complete miscarcand layout (the full miscarcand is 3 seperate levels, the last part being where the outdoor canyon is).
this is why it's kind of disjointed where you just go up to the surface for no reason, and then go right back down again. :P

when you first go into the fire golem's room, and you go up the very first flight of stairs, if you look left, there's just empty dead end hallway. that was about where the connection from the missing dungeon section would have come in (actually one level higher with stairs down where the waterfall cavern is)

otoh, i've started to think i should have made the end boss a frost themed monster.

his 'story' is that he's an outsider there (hence the fire instead of ice) which is why he gets destroyed by the altar after you weaken him, but thematically, it would have made more sense at first glace to have him have a frost flavour instead of fire. 

very pretty.. loved the openness, interiors reminded me of oblivion somehow. 

from the SW 

theres a blast from the past :) 

got around to beating it. What an awesome map. Great stuff. I have never had mapping envy as strong as this before. You are a god. 

Drake, Rubicon2, RMQ, and now this, Not Quoth! What a year. Game ideas and implementation are really superb. The mdl animation quality and some skins seen here are great. I still think the .mdl format is cool and effective (for horde combat).

Really fine gameplay, atmosphere and architecture, that kept getting better, especially after the first Iceman episode. Only thing not liking much is the autosave thing, and a visual glitch where white lines or dots are seen (between brushes?) in some areas.

Anyways, this mod is aces around here. Wow... 

about the autosave, why didn't you like it? maybe i shouldn't have put a centerprint? or do you just mean you didn't like the stutter as the engine is saving?

and a visual glitch where white lines or dots are seen (between brushes?) in some areas.

yeah, neg mentioned that to me when he tested, but i don't see it. must be something to do maybe with video cards? i have no clue, sorry. 

Yea the stutter and the predictability that some event is about to happen. Also, I mainly use my saves due to my habits (haven't used an autosave ever as far as I remember).

Lines must be my card or gl settings, I'll fiddle around a bit. When making maps, I can create those same lines. Eventually I figuered out how to avoid the white lines by brush technique. I don't know if it's the same problem in both cases though. 

Dont get me wrong stil very positive about this map but:

i saw indeed the same glitches, could it maybe be setttings aswell?

the autosaving was VERY meh, autosaving realy is consolegame crap to me. So unhardcore, its for the weak at heart and mind. Even for casual play it completly gets me out of my trip, i could go get a drink instead of suffer from severe dehydration i could go to the toilet instead of using my Progamer's Peebottle i could pick up the phone and be friendly & helpfull to the one who's calling all factors wich realy are a major setback to the experience.

Reasons: centerprint/stutter/If i would die i would restart the whole thing anyway/ if i want to safe for some reason it will most likely be a at a point i choose/ and as said above it realy gives me a console game feeling


But luckily there was enough cool stuff to compensate for this and i even set myself to endure it and record a demo. But stuff like that does stop me from replaying it

I was thinking myself to making "WoW like" bossfights for quake a while ago. In coop you could even slightly think about classes or having different players on certain tasks.And a good boss fight can last a while atleast imo:)

Like someone said in the end it was just stocking up cells and or nails and not much strategy involved. For that mather the last boss on unforgiven3 was a bit better if... it wouldnt have been reachable with quad. You might want to set or control in some way what the player will have when the fight starts so you can design the fight more accurate

But it migth be hard to make something like this with quake's limitations, but hey this whole map looked hard to make within those limits to me :) 

Yeah, make it optional. impulse toggle for people who want it, but off by default. 

the worst thing about center print messages is that it is center :) If it would be in top or bottom of your screen it would be far less in the way. 

Eventually I figuered out how to avoid the white lines by brush technique. I don't know if it's the same problem in both cases though.

well, all those chamfered corners are func_walls, so it's possible that on some settings there's a visible seam since those areas are not one full mesh.
if so, then the flicker is unavoidable. making the bevels a func_ was pretty much necessary-- it cut vis time down from astronomical units levels to a mere 3 hours. this is with willem's/tuna's multicore fix and only 2 cores.

the autosaving was VERY meh, autosaving realy is consolegame crap to me.
this made me quirk my eyebrow, to be honest. not autosaving and restarting the map from scratch when dying seems far more consoleish than an autosave.
i never enjoyed those early console games like sonic or mario because the thought of starting over from scratch drove me crazy. when pcs started getting fast enough (and programmers started making them) emulators were how i finally did end up playing all those old games and i have to say things like platformers are a lot more fun when you can save whenever you want.
even now, if i have forgotten to quicksave during a map, i'm likely to just drop it and not bother trying again if i died.
i suppose that's the main reason i implemented an autosave as i really tend to make stuff for me. :)

in any case, i'll see about removing the centerprint to make it more seamless (heh, ironic we're talking about seams above :P).
i think maybe the placement of the triggers could have been done better. instead of making an autosave right before an event, for example, make them in general lull areas instead of something. i've never worked with autosave points before so i'm just learning. 

autosaving realy is consolegame crap to me. So unhardcore, its for the weak at heart and mind

Whereas the ability to save at any time, anywhere, an unlimited amount of times is teh hardc0re 

..it was kind of a cool feat you figured out not seen in quake before (atleast i havent). But since you even mentioned it stuttered the game i geuss it's not 100% satisfactory implemented. And i do agree its nice to have a option to safe, but I dont realy see the added value of having it automated if its at the cost of perfomance (especialy if your map is already stretching the limits quite bad), since "as zealous says" we already have an option to safe at any point.

About the Eyebrow quirking i was overexeguarating a bit i dont have have a peebottle either, honoustly (well ok i had one but now it serves as my favorite drinking cup).

I geuss everyone has their own favorite way of playing maps, and i noticed (and i can imagine from a mappers PoV) its popular to post first time demos here. I have been trying that on some of the latest releases and it can be fun to not want to die on that first exploring attempt (but usualy die not being able to withhold myself from taking chances:)).
But my classic way is to examine the architecture explore the monsters & items potentialy using god/safegames/quad/allweapons/notarget/trigger visible/ to see if hard moves are possible etc etc, then plan a route and then start playing for real.

For recording demos i kind of dislike the level change without a proper intermission screen with time and stats, but thats not a big one at all. 

Kudos! 

ideally, i'd love to have it completely transparent like hl2 does it where you don't even know it's autosaving until you die and the autosave is just there.
quake doesn't seem to write save files very quickly though, for some reason.
it's not like some games where the save file is 20mb or whatever so i don't really know why it takes that long. if you look, your typical save is less than 1mb which should be written almost instantaneously. maybe hl2 and newer games have a background saving process whereas quake halts everything until it's done writing? i dunno. :P 

func_walls is where I got them also. I got a square hole filled with func_walls to get a circled hole. In the middle of all 4 sides, 2 triangle brushes meet at a pin point. If the texture behind this pin point is not the same as the func_wall, I'll get white lines.

If some videocards get beyond this, then that's great. 

tjunctions maybe? You should be able to at least make them less apparent by using gl_clear 0 but then noclipping is borked. 

yeah, i was just thinking that spirit.
splitting the geometry that way prevents the tjuncs from being created, i suppose. 

Didn't have luck with gl_clear 0. It's best if the videocard takes care of this automatically though. Mappers shouldn't have to worry about func_walls. 

When you first time enter the corridor with eight bouncing bombs, look back and you'll see the most distant walls being clipped:
http://www.primefan.ru/stuff/quake/clip.png 

yep :)

there are a few spots where this happens actually.
the bit that disappears is actually an external bsp model. (go in that hallway and type r_drawentities 0 to see which ones).

i was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel near the end for more vertices so i made a couple of the ceiling areas in those hallways external bsps to free up enough verts for some secret areas.

half the coffins are external bsps as well. specifically, the ones by the SK and the ones with the 4 golem room (where they pop up out of the ground).

if i had the patience, i think i could have gone even furthur and made ALL the ceilings in the map external bsps. the rooms are so huge that dynamic light rarely needs to be shown on them. but there'd probably a lot more flickering that i'd have to manually fix. (you can fix it by adjusting bbox size of the external bsps, but it has to be just right or it might go over the limit of # of leafs that an entity can be in) 

the limit of # of leafs that an entity can be in

Interesting, nice to know this will be a problem as I replace geometry and such myself :E 

Best thing I've played in a long time. Great work necros, loved the look and the mood! Quad barelled shotgun was pretty cool too :D Not much feedback I can give really. Just awesome work. When it comes to autosave, I really appreciated it, forgot to save and died 3/4 of the way through by a stupid mistake, and was very happy to find out it had autosaved, otherwise I would have surely stopped playing. 

I set the monster way of moving through path_corner. Will it still use path_nodes to find the path between path_corners?