no. path_nodes were added long after the map was built, so all path_corners were already set up to 'baby' monsters.

it's something i want to do though, since it really makes sense. otoh, how i did pathfinding atm is fairly hard on the cpu so in a way, it might be a good idea not to do that.

i might create a completely new walking method for path_dynamic_corner in the case of path_corners bound to moving entities or something, while still leaving static path_corners with their light-weight ai pathing, or maybe just a flag you can set... 

Have you looked at the Lazarus method?

It seems the documentation has vaporised, but what they enabled the mapper to do was include various chains of path_corners which linked up major areas, but weren't continual from one side of the map to another.

What a monster would do when alert was pick the nearest corner to the player and then work backwards, checking which of the path sections it would need to follow from its current position to reach the player - the ends of each section having to be within 256 of each other in order for it to follow.

Whilst idle it'd choose a random chain within 256 and follow it to its end, then repeat.

We've got a 'smart figgin' system which doesn't require path_corners, although some mapping concessions have to be made for awkwardly shaped areas. 

Why not just use FBX waypoints in singleplayer, guys? Shouldn't that be a really obvious possibility? 

What a monster would do when alert was pick the nearest corner to the player and then work backwards, checking which of the path sections it would need to follow from its current position to reach the player - the ends of each section having to be within 256 of each other in order for it to follow.

he was talking about inactive walking monsters. active monsters already behave this way.
you can read the first section of this: http://necros.slipgateconstruct.com/2011/07/how-to-map-for-ne_dynamic/ for a description of how the new pathfinding works.

Why not just use FBX waypoints in singleplayer, guys? Shouldn't that be a really obvious possibility?

that's exactly what it does. there's just no code for searching for items and weapons, but the map is full of interconnected path_nodes. and if fbx uses A* then it's probably very nearly identical. 

this just occurred to me, but it'd be pretty bad ass if you could define certain locations as 'important' and then have monsters patrol between important areas randomly via nodes. 

Kind of what I was suggesting. Active monsters don't intelligently follow a player - they just point to wherever they are and run in that direction, getting stuck in corners or wobbling back and forth on ledges.

Maybe didn't explain it well.

And yeah, FBX simplifies it a lot since the code is already there. 

Can this really be quake?

It's a long time since I've had quake running properly, and this was a good map to start on again :) I've been playing it in stages and have gotten lost a bit, but it's seriously awesome. Oh, and I haven't found a single secret yet :) 

I probably missed some points, but I didn't want to bog it down too much than I've already written. http://taw.duke4.net/2011/07/quake/the-altar-of-storms/ 

good read and i agree about the boss fight and the underused stuff.

the healing pools during the final boss actually do run out, but i think i set their health too high at 100hp each.
they are different from the pools in phase1 too, so if you used up all of the phase1 pools, you'd still get fresh pools in phase2, so it's a total of 600hp.

if i had been placing health packs, that would have been 24(!) large health kits. :P

probably should have at least linked the phase1 and phase2 pools and maybe lowered it to only 50hp each or something. 

Less would have definitely helped. Heck, maybe be cruel and turn them into lava when they run out, ha! 

A crusher in each pool. 

The fast zombies are genius. Really enjoyed them :) 

ye mwh fun to blast then with NG

was my favorit new monster! but like then all

the two packs in qexpo, this one from necros and the other tronyn and PM, made me lost many hours of fun :) not regretted at all 

This map is insane! I'm a little late to play it, but I couldn't believe the quality of this map, the end boss was especially awesome (and hard, played on nightmare)

Nice touch with the swinging physics gate, that was quite a surprise. And am I the only one who noticed the design being taken straight out of Oblivion :P 

nope. you're also not the only one to miss that in the readme. ;)
the layout is even based on miscarcand. i had just come off another oblivion binge when i started that map.
ironically, i'm playing it again now. :P

oblivion is like quake. you can just keep going back to it. just, quake doesn't crash as often. :P 

It'd be interesting to see what you'd come up with using the Daedric ruins style of architecture found in Morrowind. *nudge nudge* 

something similar to nesp10 ;)
the daedric style from morrowind is pretty problematic for quake though as it's very 'spikey' with lots of bits that stick out from the wall. this leads to huge amounts of vis leafs which can bump up vis times even if you just had small corridors so i never attempted a full scale version.
i do have a recreation of WoW's upper blackrock spire + blackwing lair that i want to get out before the end of the year but that one only uses the layout and doesn't actually look use the dungeon's style. (it's q1met instead of dwarven stone stuff) 

Molten Span, Lower Blackrock Spire and BlackRock depths have killer layouts/look fantastic. Seriously, I reckon you'd barely have to change the flow to have some great maps out of them... 

was an awesome map. i was really pissed they got rid of it. it was a pain to get a group together long enough to do it, but you could get a few solid hours out of it and really gave that epic dungeon feel.

i wanted to do that one instead actually, but the non-axial nature of the map and the wide opened areas wouldn't really work out well in quake. or rather, it would be a colossal amount of work to reproduce it properly.

ubrs and bwl are both very simple in terms of layout and are completely on axis making it simpler to build. 

BWL is pretty shit as a layout, since it's just room/corridor/room, but brs, especially lower is awesome. If you were going to do the whole thing that would be cool, but if you wanted to do something more managable, I'd do lbrs or brd :)

Come to think of it... you could probably make something awesome from Dire Maul... or Shadowfang keep. Or Blackfathom depths. I recall thinking each of those had awesome flow. :)

urgh if only the wow map viewer wasn't a hacked program :( 

yeah, dire maul west was pretty good. i have found memories of north though and tribute runs. ^_^

shadowfang and blackfathom are both quite offaxis and would be a pain to make though. scarlet monastery though would be cool. 

Yeah but if you think about the layout, going through the town below shadowfang, up the spire of rock, across the bridge, then the fact the map follows the battlements around the castle too. Pretty sweet :) 

Errr so yeah I finally got around to these. Tried them on my laptop but Fitz ran to slow and Spirit recommended me so gay-ass shit engine that made them buggy as fuck. Finally did a playthrough on my fixed machine with Fitz and woah this is cool.

So, great atmosphere, funky style, cool designs outside, well balanced gameplay and the modified stuff was okay. Shotgun was useful but could do with a Quakey model. Golems were fun to fight but could do with a Quakey model. Sorceresses were fairly gay. Speed zombies were cool, would be even cooler if they were still explosive only. Hidden spawn were fun.

Boss combat was mental, but in a good way. The effects on the snow bit were spectacular for Quake, real strong atmosphere with it gradually filling up with freezing fire spawn. Not too horrible to play as boss combats go... 

Shotgun was useful but could do with a Quakey model.

yeah, totally.
this was originally a tri-barrel with a kitbashed q1 SSG with a SG barrel glued on top. but damage was too low and the gun was changed to a quad barrel. but just glueing 2 SSGs together still looked like a regular SSG in first person so i had to use a totally different model. :\

Speed zombies were cool, would be even cooler if they were still explosive only

no way, they'd be insanely hard that way. the explosive kill thing was one of the first things to go once i upped the speed.

agree with the rest though. hexen2 models look great, but don't fit 100% with quake. i like the golem though. ;) 

I quite like the combat, and the 'terror' as you evade and destroy. Ever see 28 days later? Or play L4D?