|Posted by Orl on 2010/08/23 21:58:19|
|After a year and a half of on and off working, my map is finally ready for release. Get ready for a journey through a broken down castle, flooded with water and lava, inhabited by over a hundred baddies.
The first part of the map may seem a little dull, climbing through the cave. But once you reach the castle itself is when the real fun starts.
All skill levels are supported. Hard is hard, easy is easy, etc. So if you play on hard, be prepared for a tough fight.
I have spent so much time and sweat into making this map look the absolute best it can possibly be. To make it not only look good, but play good. This map is more complex than anything I have ever built in the past.
Because of being such a large map, it pushes the boundaries and limits of Quake, so an enhanced engine is required to play. Fitzquake, Enhanced GLQuake, DirectQ, and Darkplaces should all suffice.
Map info such as vis time and construction etc can be found in the oms2.txt. The texture .wad is also included in the .zip
Thanks to my testers: Necros, =peg=, Polarite, Cortex and Rocketguy for their very helpful advice.
Thanks to Willem for his modified multithreaded vis tool.
Thanks to Metlslime for his newskip tool.
And finally, special thanks to aguiRe for his patience, tools, and skills, for without his help and dedication, this map would not have been possible. You rock man :)
The only thing left to do now is download and have fun! And as always, first run demos are appreciated :)
Looks nice. Wish I had a working engine to play it on. :P
@dreadlorde: If all you need is the engine that's no problem at all. You can get fitzquake next door => http://www.celephais.net/fitzquake/
I'm On Fire
This was great!
Eight skill1 demos: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/otp_rodent.7z
(thanks negke for quicksave recording trick)
I'm still quite worn out from playing this behemoth so I'll keep this short. This map looks tremendous, you can easily see how much time and effort was put into this - it oozes polish everywhere. The custom textures drew this map over the top, it's a very simple change (wbrick turned terracotta) but it's very powerful. The animated fire looks much better in game than in the screenshots. I did wish for a black (void.tga) skybox though, to suit the burning trees better (and for easier rendering :))
Most of the gameplay is pretty meat and potatoes but with an occasional novelty (or several). Reminded me of czg's maps in that aspect (03, terra5). The combats were very high octane, I was on my toes constantly. The vores mostly sucked though, and I would appreciate more health (it's skill 1 after all). The finale, again, drove this map OTT.
I see you're not very proud of the cave section at the beginning but personally I liked it a lot, with all the climbing up and looking down - the player constantly sees his progression. It's a bit like the lost e2m6 cave part, or the Sunspire outdoors in Unreal (this is a compliment).
Thank you for this great map. I dare say this one rivals arwop/masque in scale and scope :P
In Case I Sounded Like An Idiot,
I did wish for a black (void.tga) skybox though, to suit the burning trees better (and for easier rendering :))
this is what I meant
I was playing on a laptop and it got really sluggish when I hit the area with those three buttons.
Here's a demo of my first try but it stops when I die for the first time (got pissed off and had to quit): http://www.mediafire.com/?zaz6xd644kmb7ch
I'll continue playing tomorrow. So far it looks good but the fps drops brought the exprience down a bit.
The map is awesome, congrats.
The details are incredible, so much broken objects, you really pushed the Quake engine to the max.
But I have a complain - it's way TOO HARD. I played on easy and it was ok, I died a few times, but that's no problem. Ammo is "too low", I found myself a few times just with the axe and the grenade launcher facing a shambler...and that sucks bad.
But the main problem is the end battle - I just couldn't finish it without cheating. Now, I'm now a very skilled played, but I'm not noob, I'm playing Quake since 96, it's my favorite game, I played all the maps that I could get, I can finish Quake on nightmare without any problems.
But this map I simply couldn't finish and remember it's on EASY. This is very frustrating, I found this in almost all games, the end (or the boss) is too hard on easy - this is a MAJOR problem - you have 4 skills :
-nightmare : make it almost impossible to finish, I don't really care
-hard : make it hard, but not frustrating, skilled played should finish it on a few tries
-normal : casual, it shouldn't be too hard, but also not very easy, a casual FPS player should finish in a few tries
-easy : that's it man, that's it - EASY - that means that even an unexperienced player should be able to finish, I'm very sorry, but a guy like me that finish Quake on nightmare should be able to finish your map without using the mouse !!!
Sorry for this, but I had to told you that, I know that there are a lot of people that likes challenges, ok, they can play on nightmare, but PLEASE in the future make easy EASY
Nice map with alot of good ideas.
BUT! There's alot of problems in it: extremely complex brushwork that quake engine doesn't like. Alot of things was possible to build much more effective there. Giant areas with huge r_speeds, that was also possible to avoid if to build with r_Speeds in mind. Alot of slopes that slowly pushed me to LAVA. Alot of places where silly jump leaded to death. And final battle is just deathtrap. It's kinda unplayable.
I died because of poor design in the area near the final room, u'll see in the demo.
Despite alot of problems, this level has nice quake feel to it and rly nice little things here and there, bad things will go away if u'll improve :D
Added To Eventual Playlist Of Maps
Skill 0 Problem
Looks really nice orl, I appreciate all the details - good job on the architecture, even though Vondur is probably correct. Nice feel.
I have to admit that I also found skill 0 too hard, way too hard, and also ran out of ammo and started axing things right before leaving the cave. Tried six or seven times, and the last time I made it into the castle (with only grenades left), and was exploded by a vore while trying to dodge a lot of monsters and hearing a shambler close by.
I realize that I say this about every map (easy too hard), but at least this time I'm not the only one :-/
I only play Quake since 2004 - 2006 and almost never play online, and I usually play pretty different games actually, so I didn't absorb Quake with my mother's milk like some of you here.
I do probably suck, but the degree of difficulty in most maps nowadays (ON EASY) is ridiculous for me, which means that I can't enjoy them.
Easy should have lots and lots of ammo and health, to start with. I saw your map has over 130 monsters on Easy, which is just too much even for a large map.
Easy should be id easy, pretty much. Throw health and ammo at the player like there's no tomorrow. And do put them on the main path.
The player should meet almost no resistance on easy, get to know the map, and if he liked it he will replay it on Normal.
negke's latest map had an OK easy skill, btw. Madfox' was way too hard as well though. Let's not start about Tronyn's maps.
Great architecture is a nice thing, but remember people are meant to play those levels and even enjoy them. Making skill 0 really easy takes nothing away from other skill settings.
Try having non-veterans playtest your skill levels. Your mom should be able to finish on skill 0.
gb, you read my mind, it's exactly what I feel.
But this tend to be a problem with all games. I play a lot of games on PC, XBOX 360 and PS3 and almost all of them are extremly hard on easy - a few months ago I finished Uncharted, it also has 4 difficulty levels - easy, normal, hard and crushing. Let me tell you that - I spend more than 2 days on the last level until I managed to finish it, you must have very fast reaction, you have to stay under cover, quickly get up, instant aim and shoot, then duck again or you die.
I do think that's the problem with the guys that test the games (they play all day long the same game, over and over - sometime for more than one year and they feel it's easy, but's it's not)
Orl probably made the same mistake, he tested his own map and he knows every corner of it, every move that a monster will make, etc.
That's not the way to test the easy skill, you have to ask someone who plays FPS games only from time to time and he's not very good - if he manages to finish the map without major problem (he can die a few times, it's ok, but not get stuck at a point) then it's ok. If not, add more health, ammo, everything that's needed.
In this map I found that ammo was the main problem (it's no use that you get almost all weapons, if you're out of nails and shells), grenade launcher is not good against flying wizards and shamblers and it's even dangerous for you in small rooms or when you get trapped in a corner..
The second problem was health, way too low, on easy you should find health boxes after each fight and near bad monsters (shambler, vore) you should have megahealth and at least green armor.
The edges are fun, you just have to be carefully, btw, I found a "shortcut" in the map, there's some bars blocking you to get to some broken bridge over lava, you have to press 3 buttons to open it, I didn't press the buttons, instead I jumped on some arches nearby and bypassed those grates :)
The fiend ambush where he jumps across the lava...'mazing lava scapes and rickety stairs. Didn't shoot all those targets for secret though, which would have made end easier. Thanks
I haven't finished this map yet, but here are my thoughts so far:
lighting is a bit bland, but good nonetheless. Just seemed a bit bright on my computer. Lights are well positioned, and there are plenty of effects (flickering etc) which make it seem atmospheric. Brushwork is very good, the scale of the rockwork is pretty massive, which makes the texture look a bit checkerboard style. Having said that, it is mich to see a map which feels this organic.
Gameplay is tough, and frustrating in a way because you can't just plod through the map, you have to really explore it. Doing so will lead to better guns (quite early on) and much needed armour and ammo. A couple more shells near the start would have been useful.
This map is challenging (on skill 3) but not rediculous, and when I get a chance later I will finish playing it.
I didn't go deep into the map to keep my first impressions and to let me time to appreciate everything, and may be I'm too emotive, but I love it.
The great sceneries give a dimension I've never seen before in Quake which reminds me the only thing I appreciated in LOTR.
Everything is very well done, proportions are coherent, from the big landscape to the small broken elements, and the whole scene feels natural.
I hope the exploration will last very long.
// skill 1
Good map. I really like the broken stuff. Nice details - proper ruin feel. Great trimwork. The caverns look good, too. Although sometimes there are slippery slopes and clippy corners. Lighting is so-and-so, could have used stronger contrasts. Kind of surprised me as you specifically criticized the lighting in my map as being bland even though this one feels minlightier. But it doesn't look bad, so whatever.
There's some unncessariy sloppiness like torches floating ~16 units away from the walls, floating brushes too, not all-neatly aligned textures, and sometimes brushwork that could have been improved upon for performance and compiling. You could have reduced the polycount (and thus marksurfaces) by turning 'manual' detail into individual textures, and possibly some clips here and there. Though this still wouldn't have brought the map under the limits, of course. Too bad you didn't change the lanterns; the buring trees and the fires behind the bricks , while being a nice idea, looked a bit too comic-like as well. Classic ORL style. :)
Gameplay was tough. I'd already skimmed through the thread, so I knew what I was in for, and played on Normal. Ammo seemed tight at times, but I always managed somehow. Died a few times, mostly thanks to the lava I think. Probably had a good of amount luck, too. I found only one secret. The poison one? And if that was the one I think it was, how are people supposed to survive the end battle without?
I could have skipped a large part of the map as I jumped up the rocks in front of the large broken gate at first. :)
You released a file with the same name as the previous release, you make me very unhappy.
> I could have skipped a large part of the map as I jumped up the rocks in front of the large broken gate at first. :)
I noticed this as well.
More playtesting needed :-)
Should there be a playtesting "group" somehow, maybe at quaddicted, that consists of volunteers, complete with email addresses? This way it would be easier to get more playtesters for a map, for everyone.
I think the map was bloody good. Well it is partly because I have managed to survive on easy skill (had to noclip twice to avoid lava but I hope you forgive). I have read earlier posts before playing your map and was prepared to save every shell.
The architecture is lovely. It has a very quakey feel for me. The details, brushwork, broken parts, the fire behind walls and the burning trees create a great atmosphere. The caverns looked great also.
I hate jumping over lava. I do.
I have found the same shortcut as negke but it didn't lessen the enjoyment. I could shoot some monsters in the back which I love to do from time to time.
End battle was ok. But not fitting for easy skill (you were joking in the txt right?). You teach the player what to expect so one can prepare.
I had plenty of ammo and armour through the whole level but I was warned not to spare anything. Grenade usage is the key.
Where are the secrets???
All in all I appreciate the effort you put in creating this map. It is a very good one. You will get some critics for the skill settings and for the lightning.
First play demo on easy. I have made some comments during play. Enjoy:
This Map Grinds My Gears
...And dats the way I like it. Great challenge, needing mario jumping and running just to get the ammo you need (like at the silver key area). Played at skill 1 and managed 161/168. As soon as the shambler and rest popped up at the end battle I was done for. That area needed manouvering room for sure to win. There was no lame monster placement in this map, all well engineered.
Overall, nothing boring here. 1st class atmosphere.
Wait, 1 Thing...
You got water going up-hill near a lamp post outdoor area. That's Quake though.
Nice to look at with all its details but 1 too many in-your-face surprise scenarios and an 'are you kidding me' combat moment at the end.
I found 1/3 secrets (the mega-health with 2 zombies) on Normal, but could have used the other 2 due to the brutal gameplay.
Architecturally this is a gem, but a few areas could have done with some more clipping to keep the player situated or keep the player out -- I dropped into the final area from above, much to my demise.
The texturing was good, too. It kinda looked like MadFox's and Negke's last maps' love-child ;)
I loved the lightning strike!
Good stuff, Orl!
Some of the best eye candy ever in a Quake 1 map. I read before I played it that ammo was scarce so I was conservative and got through but the final battle even on easy I don't think was supposed to be conqured and I didn't.
Didn't stumble on any secrets. Great detail. Cool lift. I thought sliding on those rocks was part of the challenge. I don't know how you guys keep coming up with great Quake 1 maps but I'm glad you do. If John Carmack ever plays these maps he must feel good about something that's lasted so long.
I mean, this is pretty fucking rad.
I love this map. It's my first Orl map, and it was a pretty fucking badass intro.
Loved the theme and the way it was carried out, loved the cave sections.
loved the shitty textures (sorry), and didn't suffer from slow downs.
played on skill 1 and it was just right for me. found 1 secret. killed all monsters cept one.
I agree that the end wasn't a great scenario. Nowhere near enough wiggle room, and respawning items there may have been better... but whatever, fuck. the architecture was SUPER detailed in some places in very nice ways, and the 'checkerboard' textures, the goofy trees, the misalignments that did exist? they all added to the kind of old skoolness permeates this map.
so yeah, congratulations, I really loved this and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next!
Holy Crap That Was Hard...
But it was pretty good. I played through on nightmare, level design was pretty interesting, very intricate brushwork. One thing i noticed about the brushwork is it reminds me of my early levels, where i used to create as many details as i could with brushes - its not really a bad thing, but its like negke said.
Difficulty was moderate at the beginning - i was okay until i got to the part with the two spawning shamblers after the broken bridge - the shamblers weren't a problem, but after that the difficulty seemed to ramp up dramatically, mainly after going to the lift. The lift part was hard, but after 3 loads i managed to get through by nading the scrags and sniping the vores from afar with the SNG.
The ending was RIDICULOUS. I was so tempted to use cheats but i didn't, the area i found was poor placement for the shambler. It had virtually no cover, except for a tiny pointy brick that only hid the shambler from spotting me. The only way i could do it was a mix of shamb dancing while perforating it with nails, and dodging the scrags. The real reason i survived is that when he jumped he faced the other way so he didn't hit me enough, and gave me an opening to do some damage.
Lighting was normal, was nice in some places, but for the most part seemed pretty ordinary. I really liked the little touches, such as the mechanism to open the final door, I'm guessing you used 3 trains with synced movement to do that?
This level really gave me that quake feeling from when i was a kid, and i felt the game was too hard - this i liked. It gave the level a fresh feeling that i haven't seen in other levels. Overall, was a satisfying experience, good level, difficulty was a bit inconsistent, but it was worthy of the skill nightmare lol.
And nice trap at the end where that one death knight drops down from above, it almost got me heh.
The worst part about this level: cheap combat ambushes. Getting the silver key was awkward (quicksave made it palatable.)
The best parts: great sense of exploration, great jumping/traversal puzzles, great brushwork, epic scope and feeling, lighting was good (brighter than average, but after i turned down my gamma and it was perfect.) Old school atmosphere, new school detailing.
The 'choose your poison...' secret is key to surviving the end, otherwise it is nigh impossible. Re-spawning items would be better off here than in the swim-in-lava-for-the-silver-key area.
Which classic Quake level was it that you had to shoot all of the face textures to get a secret? ;)
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