my last post was hurried. The level's strengths are interesting rooms, environments, landscapes, interconnectivity and some cool lifts and windows. The waterfall was nice too. It's just that it needed to be smaller and have more coherence and player-friendliness. And more polish.
Madfox, try playing some other maps and you see how they are done. You can open the terra pack .map files in the editor to see how they are done, for example. The player always knows where to go next and there are enemies populating the levels.

The computer terminals and the weird beam thingy were kinda cool too. There was some bug in the floor with one computer room with enforcers near the opening windows, i dropped out of the level when I noclipped there and walked around. The room with the teleport destination. 

is it a monster, is it a monster!

Thanx UnderworldFan, for your revieuw!

Trueley I must confess this map needed more betatesting, but I had to shout more harder on sreenshots and betas. Now there were only four,
and it helps a lot when people give their feedback. For now I got a few good hints.

Sorry Bambuz, my mappings always tend to a morer intuitive path than a logic player would follow. Player friendly is the good word.
I also found two parts where this dropout level appeared. I'll cheque it out.

Trinca, I often wondered why you dislike me, but that many reasons will be a matter of people and taste. Still a beer and good skill myside!
Indeed I should give the Shambler a message for the sidedoor opening. As the underwater path could have signs. Thanks for the hint.

I'll remap the errors, and make a new bsp.
I have made a booth on Q10thExpo and have the level Orb'sBetrayal with newskill setting and lightning, but there may be to much ammu. 

i dont dislike u madfox but

1� once i send u a privet msg at quakeone.com and u never reply me... this is not nice!

2� u never coment other people maps people dont care about download but coments are always good bad or good

cheers man :p 

for the last is my own fault, but the reason is I am always mapping. Other people's map do interest me, but I'm cheap in time.

the first you must forgive me, because I archive all my email with people sharing Quake maps with me. If you sended me an email at quakeone.com and I didn't answer must be that I'm unused to things like private messages on boards. But it wasn't may intention, my computer crashes rather a lot on the net. 

Don't sweat it ;)

This map was a giant step up from your previous works although it would have definitely benefited from more beta-testing. The colored lights weren't bad and they helped give the map a feel of its own. The size of the whole thing was awesome and the inter-connectivity was decent - much better than your previous maps. Your brushwork has also improved. Unfortunately, like many others, I was too lost after the first key and quit :(

Ultimately, though, the fact that CZG likes your map enough to offer a redux is an accomplishment on its own :) He should definitely do it! (It's funny, I thought the same thing about Quatrotski) Keep up the good work! 

The key factor as CZG said was not in my mapping code.
Strange enough I can bite my edge to show people how to dropp weapons in a new keymap, a key and a door are me a problem.
Thanks for haven them explained.

I made the level with tech05_2 , took out the side and it became some A-form corridor.
Bad is when this texture becomes a door itself it is harder to relate it a door. Had a silver sign marked.
And demons tend to get caught in the slopes, so it needs clipping.

I made a demo and realized it was a rough ressistance I got, without taking the items squad or pentagram:

http://members.home.nl/gimli/madfox.dz 

Gameplay was fun. I didn't have any major problems, but I got a bit confused a couple of times. Nothing too bad though, just going back to find somewhere I recognised - which wasn't too hard. I can see why some people might get lost though as doors were often very hard to make out, and there were not many clues as to which doors had been opened when you did stuff. The gold/silver key thing was a bit weird too, as CZG and others point out.

The shambler spawning in front of the player followed by an acid pit opening up behind near the end sucked though. I just noclipped out because it was so cheap.

Nice interconnected design - I did like the layout.

As most people said though, the build quality wasn't so nice, and the lighting was very garish. Stop using DMM asap! ;)

Some of the design was also a bit suspect - I'm not a fan of mixing medieval and base textures together - although it can be pulled off well. Here I don't think it was done effectively so the two styles did not mingle well.

Uhm, overall though, it was a good 20 minute romp. Certainly worth a play. 

I too got lost and ended up using noclip, so it was good to see the MadFox demo. And yes, I watched all 33 minutes of it - great fun, well done. (MadFox, either you've got a dodgey mouse or you are a keyboard player. You wasted a lot of ammo with your jerky aiming!)

The wrong use of key-doors and the dodgey door textures were what got me. I suppose after 10 years of Quake, you expect things to be the same in all maps and if they're not, ennui creeps in.

Thanks for this map and keep making them, MadFox. 

The shambler spawning in front of the player followed by an acid pit opening up behind near the end sucked though. I just noclipped out because it was so cheap.

That was just your bad karma, than ;) though I agree, that bit sucked alot, because through the whole map before you could always retreat(lots of long corridors and big rooms, the fiends/vores were not very effective because of this, maxbe it would be more fun to spawn them in front of and behind the player with still some room to move of course).
Also I thought some parts could use more monsters in it.
Until the slime pit it�s a great map, the huge outdoor part with the RL is very nice, as is the exploraion. 

I admit the acid pit is a bore, but this is exact the startpoint I made this map. cheap thrills!
I was broken with the map, because I started a marine base, but ended with a gothic castle.
I wanted the castle more formed as the base,but ran out of max_brushes.
That same pit made me do over the demo three times, because I wanted it to show.
And then my keyboard play got so weird, I hardly dared to publish the demo. The other demos were more heroic.
But at least I came through without the items or secrets.

Because there was hardly an end play I had only the demon behind the player spawn, and the acid pit.
More monsters could, but I was at 712 monsters, and 299 lights. Close to package overflow.(612 entities)

My own complain is to much megahealth. 

wouldn't have been so much of a problem if it were easily escapable. As it is right now though, it's essentially an instant death trap, which just isn't fun in any level. If you release another version I'd suggest making it a shallow, escapable pool. You could also make it more obvious to the player by having similar pools open along the sides of the corridor. 

As long as it is "close to" overflow it should still be ok no !?(doesn�t aguirRe�s engine have extended limits?)
I�d like to see that(and put all the megahealth to good use :) 

I could change the spawntime of the lift.
Now it is 4, what means a player with health-100 will survive. If wait = 1 health 50 will do.

Monster placement could be better, as the opening door after killing the respawned shambler, which seem to be hard to find.

Thanks for your support, I will try to make a recompiled map with these hints. 

Still no success?

Oh well, I liked this map as it was. An atmospheric place.

A few years passed but I still remembered it. I completely forgot its name, so I had to search over the whole map archive to find it...

So today I enjoyed it yet another time.

Thank you MadFox. 

It's not that I ain't have no succes with recompiling.
It's more that I published three other maps since then.

I made a GruntGrenadine map with a Capture The Camera kit.
This makes it easier to see what happens ingame, like doors that open out of sight.
But it got slashed in my cleaningup periods, as always after lots of mapping.

Glad you enjoyed the level.
My last map has a cave part, that comes from the end of this level.
So it's not that I won't try to recompile it, it's just my last level keeps a hold on me.

See the others on my homepage! 

It appears that I like your style of mapping.

Enjoying the Abandon pack right now... and I'm going to explore all of your maps still available on the web :-) 

Madfox you're rock! 

Abandon Pack = lots of fun!

not those top detailed maps but lots of fun to play, lots of Vore dancing... is what i remenber the most. 

I'm a little surprised.

"GraveyTrail" was the one that made me start.
"Crumb" the one that made me going.
"True Sailor" the one that made me believe.
"FlyingDutchman" the one beyond my imagination.
"SameOldShow" the one that really made me mad.

Thanks for your support! 

Droog_Andrey, can you make a demo, so I can see what you like to see changed? 

but maybe only the silver/gold keydoors, they should open when you unlock them, not when you just grab the key. 

That's a wrong option I gave the doors, sure.

There's a change I would like to make at the crossing over the water.
The Shambler appears behind the player, which can easily avoid him.

I would apreciate if you gave some comments to the Abandon. There's a toppic on it in GraveyTrail.

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=596&start=185 

Please give me some time to fully explore it...

Usually I play Quake maybe once or twice a week, so the whole thing should take quite a while...

But it just suck me in when I start playing... %) 

I get used to it... so let it be as it is...