|Posted by JPL on 2004/11/20 12:43:34|
I'm back with a brand new Quake Single Player base-based map called CMC (CMC for "Cheyenne Mountain Complex").
I would like to specially thank aguirRe, who helped me to reduce vis running time from 10 hours to less than 2 hours, and as well for his global feedback about the map design: you rock man !!
Download on http://lambert.jeanphilippe.free.fr
So now go play it, enjoy or hate it, as you want... All feedback and comments are welcomed...
BTW, the first time you're in the gold gate room and press the 3rd switch, the game crashes on Hard skill - no free edicts. Doh.
Other than that, this map grew on me overall. The starting gameplay is horrible, really boring. Once you get past the main lift, it's a lot more fun. Even so, it's pretty hard and some bits could be frustrating, generally I tended to run around like a loon rather than play properly. I like the way the layout comes together later on too, it all starts to make sense. However the design, like the gameplay, is a mixed bag. Some of it is good, like some designs in the larger rooms, and the curvy corridors. The occasional bit is great - the mad arches in the power room. Conversely, quite a lot of it is bland, and despite the layout it still feels like a collection of vaguely impressive rooms linked by distinctly unimpressive corridors.
Having said that, I think you could do very well with your mapping - the ideas are there, the talent is there, some good gameplay is there, and the build quality is there. You just need to refine it and increase the coherence, and I think some serious beta testing would help too.
A Bug, A Bug, .......... Wheres The Bug?
In the readme
Then load the map by typing "map hellchepsout".
I see the same mistakes as your first map, JPL. Incoherent designs, inconsistent designs, inconsistent lighting. Like Shambler said, some areas looked really good, others were very bland. Similarly, some areas were lit well others seemed fullbright. Also, overall theme was not implemented well, the designs didnt seem to fit together as a whole.
Gameplay wise, I really didnt like it at all. I was playing this like a DM game rather an sp game, which is fine for an area or two but this whole map seemed like that.
Despite all of that, I have to agree with Shambler's conclusion. You have the talent, but it just needs to be put to a more coherent and refined approach.
Shambler/nitin: Thousands apologizes, aguirRe found this big issue as well on the map in Hard skill (I see a mail from him this morning...), so please guys, don't try it or your engine will unfortunatly crash (fitzquake does...). I will try to update the map to avoid this fucking error ASAP... Otherwize even if you seemed to be bored by the map, I'm glad to hear you think I have some kind of "talent" for maps... I take this as a compliment... Thanks...
VoreLord: Sorry, It comes from a copy paste... I will correct it later, with the hard skill error update... ;)
While I think that Shambler and Nitin both have valid points, you certainly have gone forward from your first release, so your heading in the right direction. I had fun playing the map. Thanks, and keep going.
I played on normal and had no crashes.
...Nice piece of work indeeed! My two cents: I found the overall layout of the map very nice, with good backtracking and generally good brushwork (ideas are here, for sure!), a nice feeling of interactivity (as far as Quake allows). I agree with Shamb about the mgameplay flow that's quite unbalanced and rather easy overall. I only played normal so far to avoid crashes addressed in the previous posts and I gotta say that 2 quads near the end would deserve an harder fight to be had... I found all secrets, little more variety here wouldn't hurt... Texturing left me an odd feeling... maybe a different, maybe darker, light placement would have worked better with them...
Anyway.... an above average map for sure and a great way to start a Sunday morning, thanks. Keep them coming.
...waiting for the fixed version for Hard 'n Nightmare....
Mixed Bag Here
Architecture at first glance seems to be a lot reminiscent of many old Q1 base maps, but when looking closer, there are in fact a lot of curves and unusual designs that are interesting. Texturing is also similar, a mix between the old idbase and other more HL inspired themes.
Lighting is IMO the main problem; all the flashing and either underlit or overlit rooms make the visuals flat and this also hides the more interesting designs. I'm not a fan of coloured lighting, but it's actually applied rather cautiously here and definitely better than the earlier Hellchepsout.
Gameplay is mainly good, although the initial rooms are pretty tough in an unfair way, the grunts and enforcers from all directions really wear down health quickly. Ammo/weapon/health balance is overall good on Normal; no axing here. Maybe a bit more shells and less rockets. Gameflow is sometimes a bit confusing but not a big issue.
Although I liked Hellchepsout better for its theme, it's good to see that you're trying out different things. Keep it up!
I Agree With AguiRe
I really liked the overall 'shape' of the map, at first I thought it was going to be a 'go get key, head back, go through door, repeat' kinda slog but it wasn't and the way it which is wasn't was pretty neat.
Lighting is definitely a bit odd. There were a number of glitches, at least in MacGLQuake.
Didn't actually play the map, 'cause I'm stuck with a trackpad for the moment.
this map is much better!
good job :)
Well, I thought it was excellent. :)
Strangely it's similar to a map I've kind of started. I thought the textures and architecture were really well done. Managed to get around the faults with the hard level by using Tomaz Quake. This map on level 3 is a total bitch, but then that's what it should be.
this map definitely shows a lot of potential, keep at it JPL. I wouldn't take a lot of work to make this map look excellent. It needs a coherent scheme of lighting, with a few different types of lights that are repeated throughout. Maybe some spotlights for the walls would have been good, as well as more subtlety, and toning down the brightness a bit.
Brushwork is very good, interesting in general, but quite often one or two of the walls will be completely boring, with everything else being nicely detailed. I especially noticed that in the bit where there's 2 screens and a button on a platform... its all uberdetailed but the outside walls of the big room are completely flat and the textures stand out.
Gameplay was alright, a bit of fighting shamblers with rockets for me though, didnt like that. Looking forward to your next release though, it wouldn't take much to make this a great map.
I wouldn't take a lot of work to make this map look excellent.
Should have been:
It wouldn't take a lot of work to make this map look excellent.
I definitely thought it was an improvement over Hellchepsout. I think the main problem here is the lack of overall detail work; Someone already said some parts are uberdetailed while the rest of the map suffers. Scampie told me once that it's not one or two set centerpieces that people notice, it's the entire feel of the map. If you have a couple great eye candy spots, then the rest of the map probably suffers because of it, and I think that's the case here.
You had some great areas, lots of great fighting arenas after the initial tunnel area. Some of the monsters were used ineffectively compared to the rooms they were in. Vores for example were used almost exclusively in areas where you could easily just duck behind a corner. Shamblers were put in long corriders, where you could back up and they couldn't even attack you, etc.
I found 4/4 secrets, only the megahealth and red armor I noticed. I take that back, there was a Quad Damage I found after I cleared out an entire room of guys. :(
It was a pretty big map, with lots of hoard combat. I prefer smaller, more focused battles, but overall the gameplay was pretty good. The map itself is nice, it just needs a lot of overall polish and cohesion. There were lots of random-seeming architecture, that, while pretty neat, didn't contribute well to the level.
I think everyone pretty much said the same stuff, so I'll just say what they said again. You've got a lot of potential, you just need to refine and polish. Good work sir.
now I'll have to play the map!
Well, after the firsts 2 comments, I was afraid to be really flamed this time.... But, now I'm really glad to hear that even if the map is not perfect (due to this funcking bug i hard skill.. which I will try to solve quickly), the major part of you guys have a good impression about it.
So I would like to thank everybody for your consructive feddback (I learn from bad and good comment), and all the encouragements you gave me..... I think _Func place is definitively the best Quake mapping forum...
man is a realy peace of art...i love the map very much keep making good things like that!
gonna dload now :>
I've just updated the map in order to be able to play it on hard skill. It seems not ot crash any more on FitzQuake, so I hope it's OK now... Let me now if you reach any problem..
Well, I disliked the lift that moved on its own. It's boring to wait for those. And you sealed the shortcuts with invisible brushes, so it's not really speedrunnable. I'll concentrate on the small, others have covered the rest already :P
Well, I disliked the lift that moved on its own.
...not being funny, but wtf. Since when has this been a mapping crime?
*sigh* ...I just can't wait to bring out a map myself. I'm just gonna sooo love reading your reviews.
About The Lift
Well, I was asking here in the mapping help thread how to solve this problem using triggers or some some other stuffs. Many mappers answered me that it is easily possible with a "2 levels" lift, but if there are more, the better way is to let the lift run free, and just wait for it.
BTW, I agree, it's sometimes boring to wait for it... Anyway, it works fine, and it's the most important isn't it ??
It is possible, just fairly slow. There's a big shortcut in the GK Door room - slope jump onto the suspended platform thing, then sneak in through a little gap at the top of the stairs on the right. Then get gold key, return to that room, and exit, blah.
Megazoid, don't be stupid. The lift moving on it's own accord is a poor idea because it means you have to wait around a lot to use it (and you have to use it quite a lot in this map).
... it seems you find a hole in a clip brush.. grrr...
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