http://quetoo.org 

Somewhere I do not understand on a business perspective how IP owners do not have a responsible for the preservation of the good will to the IP ?

Shit out desperate me too crap like Quake Champions and you are causing a serious future loss on the next installment of the IP.
Customers get disillusioned or the IP just becomes diluted - just another whatever goes - with no massive guaranteed good will and buyer base trusting in the products quality due to where the bar was set with previous iterations of the IP.

Thats from a business perspective. Another perspective is shitting on "art" or other achievements in such a way is just not a cool legacy - in other words what the fuck are they doing with their lives :D ?

Goes for System Shock, GITS movie remake, Quake Champions, etc etc ad nauseam... 

Was the last year when "Quake" was an IP with any selling power. 

Possibly Kinn, since 3 years or so though it is the pefect opportunity to give power back to such IP's - see Doom4 - the next one will sell well again because an honest effort was made and rewarded with it - it allows
1 - lovers of the original IP to get friendly with modern versions of the IP
2 - newcomers that want to get on board the Doom "legend" to actually find substance to the whole hoo-ha about the grand old legendary Doom without dismissing it as "old farts have no clue"

These help build a healthy devoted customer base for the next installment

imho 

"Somewhere I do not understand on a business perspective how IP owners do not have a responsible for the preservation of the good will to the IP ? "

Yup. None of us understand. The men in suits in offices and boardrooms at Bethesda DO understand. They might not get it right all the time but there will be reasons from a business / cold hard profit perspective to not preserve good will to the IP. The market is a lot bigger than fans of the original (let alone "fans of the original who will get offended by a remake/reuse they personally don't like"), and that's what they have their beady dollar eyes on.

Having said that Doom4 was great and Quake Chumpions looks like dogshit on a stick *shrug*. 

The multiplayer/co-op genre seems very saturated and competitive at the moment. I'm skeptical that Quake Champions will be able to stand out and compete in a substantial way. I feel like revisiting the IP's roots would have a better chance of strengthening the brand. Imagine: a Bloobourne-esque FPS under the Quake banner. I find this more appealing than yet another cookie-cutter arena shooter. Of course, I'm just talking out of my ass. I poo-poo'd several aspects of Doom4 before it launched and ended up happily eating my words. I hope this is the case with Quake Champions, though I'm pretty skeptical so far. 

Generally speaking, you don't want an IP to be dormant for too long. The big strength of it is the inherent reduction in marketing cost. Quake Champions keeps "Quake" as a term in the general awareness of gamers, even if they never play it, so any future action with the same name within a certain time frame requires less heavy lifting from marketing. Even sub-par or bad releases can bring this benefit, so long as it isn't a 100% crap show. Get another thing with "Quake" on it out now, if it has any redeeming value and can eventually break even, it preserves the IP value for a future project, and maintains the Zenimax umbrella.

I'll try it, if it is good, I will enjoy it, if not, well, I already have Reflex, and of course, Quake. 

I'm an MP fan. Not too excited about what I am seeing of Champions but will reserve judgement until I actually have a chance to play it. Q3A felt great. Movement speed and all that, micro-moments etc. Weapon balance was great. Doom4 was a sweet surprise. MP sucked so I am hoping they are going to fix that with Champions.

I am not concerned that Champions is a hero-based game. That's a marketing decision based on the success of Overwatch. Tim Willits has stated you will be able to play your own style and I take that to mean the heroes are more like preset loadouts. So I am not worried. This is going to work fine for the game. In Q3A I am more of a rocket launcher player with the railgun as my second most used weapon. Shotgun third and then whatever else works. But I have friends that use other tactics.

Out of the gate it seems they are embracing eSports so that's a welcome addition.

I don't play much of Quake Live but I prefer Q3A with bots or on a LAN - that's just me. I'm no pro player.

I would have liked to see a Lovecraftian SP/MP Quake with new tech but that's not what Quake means to the suits and people who remain at id. 

Would dislike Doom(2016)

I only played the demo, and speedruns of it are great. But the main campaign seems so lacking.

You basically have some dialogue, then a lifeless area until you hit an "arena" where you fight a specified 11(?) monsters at a time with a new one replacing the last one you killed until the final count is reached.

This you simply repeat over and over... with BOSS fights thrown in that are just about the same.

And the look of the game... I mean seriously, it's Darkplaces with over the top colored lighting and they sure couldn't get the fire animation right... it looks copy and pasted everywhere.

I just couldn't take it seriously, the ammmo popping out like a pez dispenser from the monsters after glory kills was just so hellarious. Like gaming entertainment for a 10 year old.

Who knows, maybe when they reboot it again in 2036 I'll find it more appealing, hehe 

You can't seriously sit there with a straight face and describe Doom that way. I suppose in Quake you walk through brown monotone levels killing one or two enemies at a time until you hit an arbitrary exit trigger?

Yeah, Quake sounds shit too when you describe it like that. 

If you are wanting to play a more accurate remake of System Shock, I will refer you to Citadel (not finished yet): https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=6977.new#new

http://www.indiedb.com/games/citadel

Please rest your hopes on that project, it looks great if I do say so myself. 

"The men in suits in offices and boardrooms at Bethesda DO understand. They might not get it right all the time but there will be reasons from a business / cold hard profit perspective to not preserve good will to the IP."

...short term profits vs long term, its retarded and its common yes.

This good will to IP stuff I mentioned was not referring to the hardcore fan marketbut the larger market. The "brand" is a strong arguments for sales amongst mass market. BUT this only applies to very very few IPs, who has NOT heard of Doom across the whole potential market? Or Mario same, Nintendo knows to value this.

If they shit the games under the brand the belief will turn to the original is overrated crap to people who just heard of the name and did not experience it - and this kills the brand. 

Even if you're right - more right than the guys in charge of this - you're changing the goalposts there. Also:

"The "brand" is a strong arguments for sales amongst mass market."

Maybe, maybe not. I expect someone, somewhere has looked into the importance of the Quake brand to the mass market compared to all the other ways to suck money out of the plebs, and decided that either they can afford to shit on it, or they can't and that QCrap won't damage it anyway.

And....

"I feel like revisiting the IP's roots would have a better chance of strengthening the brand. Imagine: a Bloobourne-esque FPS under the Quake banner. I find this more appealing than yet another cookie-cutter arena shooter. "

Of course, this is what we all personally want and have been wanting for decades. Again some grey men who have never even seen Quake but have seen a fuckload of market analysis will be deciding on brand importance vs. quick sales vs. development time of a complex SP FPS vs. marketing feasibility vs. etc etc. What WE want means jack shit.

Finally: "Quake" to the general public these days means Q3A or Quake Live rather than Q1. Think on that when you're talking about brands.


TL,DR: Yes we are all morally right in wanting the Quake brand to continue via a true successor to Quake. But that's not what the Quake brand and it's marketability means to the people making the decisions. 

Has anyone considered that maybe id and "the suits" in fact do think they are doing the right thing with the IP (with quake chumpions) from an artistic perspective? I mean let's be honest here, the vast majority of people associate "Quake" with deathmatch, e-sports etc. They think that's what most of the audience want and they are probably completely correct.

They tried to give the singleplayer aspect an identity with the Strogg stuff, but turns out all that stuff is actually really lame and generic and people quite rightly didn't buy enough copies of Q4 anyway.

This forum consists of about the only people left in the world for whom "quake" means skulking about in a brown castle shooting midget knights in the face. 

 

 

sometime i shoot them in the chest or legs 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnNQJrKnRlo 

Yeah visually that works for me I guess. Might just buy it to fly around and look at the levels but that's about it. 

Yeah I'm aware of this project. Wasn't it started on Darkplaces too? Kinda interested to see how it'll turn out. 

Kinn, yeah, I think it's most likely that guys at id are excited about making a cool Quake multiplayer game.

I'm acquainted with the design lead-- worked with him a bit (remotely, over email) and had some other chats -- he's always seemed like a fan of the series, someone who tried hard to make Quake Live work out, and not incidentally someone who would also like to see another singleplayer Quake someday. Maybe there are "suits" farther up the chain who are cackling over plans to shit out a sub-par game, but eh I just don't enjoy the process of assuming the worst and then getting upset about my assumptions.

I also don't enjoy jumping into the middle of a pitchfork mob on the forums, so sometimes I keep that opinion to myself. But, you asked. :-) 

i think that video looks better than the last one. I think if you manage expectations and think of it as a cheesy revamp of Q3A, I could see it being a bit of fun. Gameplay feel looks very similar at least. I always thought Q3A was aesthetically a bit of an unsuccessful hodge-podge, though the engine was graphically impressive for the time. This is higher fidelity of course, but not cutting edge, and the aesthetic is just as average.

Is this free-to-play? I forget. If so will definitely give it a go. Can't see myself paying real money for it as it stands to be honest. 

Latest reports are that it is free to play as Quake Ranger only, or a one-time cost to be able to play as anyone. 

I like the movement speeds we're seeing on the monitors here:

https://www.facebook.com/Radeon/videos/1676632082630122/