Thanks to Ricky who owes me 90 bucks Quest doesn't work on Win7 64bit and the Virual XP Mode doesn't help either, because of some fullscreen issue.

Gtkradiant 1.5 then (couldn't get the newer branches to run, there's no fool-proof installer/pack). What's really bothering me, though, is that one is so restricted to the entity definitions. You can't use custom entities without adding them to the def file first. So there's some stuff I can't do and don't know how to change it. For example, triggers are defined as brush-based and it's impossible to use them as point ents (and vice versa, e.g. an info_notnull with a brush) - doing so, Gtkradiant will disregard their position/dimensions in the display windows and move them all to the map origin.
What can I do about it? Is there an option to make the editor less anal about such things? 

Try another editor maybe. There's bsp editor and maybe soon thanks to willem / ericw Toetag windows edition.

QuArK as well - although I hate the interface.

I think I remember you saying you hated the one from WC.

It's a pain upgrading OS. None of the Quake stuff just works any more. 

I told you I was dual booting XP and Windows 7, and the way I see it is you havent lost anything, only the ability to run a REALLY old piece of software.

Try using Hammer.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! 

Worldcraft/hammer is only slightly more flexable about interchanging point entities for brush entities. If you remove the definition of an entity from the fgd file, then you can place it as either, which is helpful for func_illusionary. It does mean that you lose all the smart edit functions though, so for anything more complicated than func_illusionary it gets annoying.

The hack we incorportated into quoth was to create a series of wrapper functions like:

void() func_wall_point =
{
self.classname = "func_wall";
func_wall();
}

You can then define a "point" version of the entity in the def file.

I suppose you could also do this with a preprocessor of your map file added to the compile process. It could just do a find and replace in the .map file of "funcpoint" for "func". Assuming you never use the phrase in text fields or textures. Replacing

"classname" "funcpoint

with

"classname" "func

might be safer... 

ijed: Quark? lol

Ricky: So do I. But I told I would come back and complain no matter what. I actually might use a hammer on this computer sooner or later (and then come back to you to complain).

Preach: Yeah, I guess editing the def file and dublicate the entities in question is the only way. I don't need the smart edit functions except for the difficulty spawnflags. 

Just run Quest in Linux in Virtualbox? 

Smart Edit are the only functions you keep if there's no entry in the .fgd - then you can just add and remove keys by typing them in.

You have to keep copy pasting entities though to not fill them out by hand. Which gets very annoying, as does the 'using invalid keys' report.

On the other hand a fgd is easy to write and amend and lets you set your own default values for stuff like lights.

We use a similar wrapper list for backwards and cross compatibility. I think doing Find/Replace on each compile would get irritating quickly. 

negke

Quark is POWER!!!

Stop using lames editors!

Is about time u get pro... and Quark is easy and fast! 

Interesting point about Radiant's inflexibility wrt point/brush entities.

Hadn't noticed actually, because I prefer to code in QC instead of in the map editor :-P 

Is using GTKRadiant 1.4 an option for you? I don't recall it being so restrictive about entities. 

I was assuming that you would make the find/replace a part of your batch file you use to compile maps, so once you had set it up you'd never need to do it again. I'm sure this is easy to do with grep, but I don't know the syntax myself. It's possible to do with FOR /F in a windows batch file, but good luck to you if you try. It would be hacker friendly at least, as it doesn't require a custom progs. 

That would work fine yeah. 

There was something about 1.4 I didn't like and which felt better in 1.5. Couldn't find a Q1 version of 1.4 so I haven't tested it again. 

Does 1.5 still use the .def/.qc file format for entity lists? Because in 1.4, and all other Radiants going way back in time, it will parse the /* QUAKED */ entity notes straight out of a qc file. The format is dead simple too. I recall 1.5 and later changing the format to some byzantine XML monstrosity. I think you are actually right about Radiant not wanting to convert something it thinks is a point entity to a brush ent, and vice versa, because what I have in my .def file is two info_notnull entities, like this:

/*QUAKED info_notnull (0 0.5 0) (-4 -4 -4) (4 4 4) */

/*QUAKED info_notnull (0 0.5 0) ? */

The first is a point ent, you can see it has a bounding box. The second is a brush ent, its size is "?," i.e., whatever you make it. Inside the comment brackets I've dumped some of the cool hacks from the "teaching an old progs.dat new tricks" thread, so I can refer to them easily.

Radiant 1.5 changed the interface in a lot of subtlety annoying ways to make it more like a 3D modelling prog. If that suits you, cool, but it sure didn't do it for me.

With 1.4 you have to go through a texture and game file converting process to get it working correctly for Q1, which is described here:
http://industri.sourceforge.net/howto.php

Actually you should try Sikkpin's QuakeEd, it's all the goodness of oldschool Radiant, specifically built for Q1:
http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60225&start=133
No gamepacks, reads wads directly. 

1.5 can use both, either XML or .def.

It seems to dislike /* ... */ for anything else than entity definitions - I had to change all my comments to

//
//

I'm not going back to Quest though. I map five times faster in Radiant.

You can set it to use .def files in the config file. It comes with a vanilla Quake XML entity file though. 

The latest version of 1.5 is not my friend, I do not like it,I want SPoG back working on it to get it back to how it was when 1.5 was 'new.' This latest version has very uncool features that I wish were removed and/or reverted. I am considering switching to Ogier.

/rant 

Grahf: Having to go through a texture conversion process every time I want to try a new wad sounds like hell of a hassle. :/
Could you send me your .def file? If 1.5 supports .def files as well, this might be an option. So far, I worked around the restriction issue by simply deleting the four or five conflicting entities from the default def.

gb: It definitely feels like a fast editor. Many current nitpicks are probably just matters of unfamiliarity that disappear once one gets used to the program after a while. I wouldn't even consider the def thing a major issue. However, there are other things I'm not sure of in the long run. I kind of get the feeling the way it works affects the shapes of my brushwork. Creating complex architecure, particularly of the trisoup type, must be a lot more difficult if not impossible?). The 2d hide/group function might be a sluggy, too. I wish there was an additional farclip option.
How do select entities in 2d mode? Through brushes and possbily cycling through all entities on the same plane (like alt+shift+click does for brushes).

Zwiffle: Like what? I assume you're talking about the latest nightly build (which I use) and not the stable version? What I find annoying, for instance, are things like the target/name change when cloning entities.


(I probably wrote the same stuff before..) 

How do select entities in 2d mode? Through brushes and possbily cycling through all entities on the same plane (like alt+shift+click does for brushes).

yes, they are selected just like brushes. 

Indeed, I see it now. Must have done something wrong yesterday then. 

I hadn't looked on the speedmap I mentioned a while back for a bit now... too busy with school.

I opened it up from my computer just now (not from within WC), and now all the textures values are cleared!

anything that was scaled down, or shifted has gone back to 0!

Any idea what happened there?

I haven't even checked what the entity values are like!

...

okay, they seem fine...

Is there a way to fix this, besides readjusting everything manually?

...it's pretty simple map so if that's what I have to do it won't suck that much. 

Perhaps each of the editors uses a slightly different map format. Better finish the map in WC then.

Also try to get generic and/or Zwiffle to make a speedmap, too. 

Just found this: http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpress.com/2010/03/20/tutorials/
Nice tutorial, gb.

Netradiant sounds like something I should give a try - if it's indeed like 1.5 with additional features. E.g. being able to change the keyboard shortcuts. 

WC has a unique texture system - that's how it does proper locking and a couple of other tricks. 

So far it gives me some memory error every single time on load, ctrl+tab doesn't go to the next view like it said, it crashes when loading certain .wad files.

>:( 

My main niggle with it is that minimizing it causes all windows (I use detached windows for 2d, textures, camera) to minimize individually, and when returning it from the task bar, they all stay minimized.