well, sure, but it's just that, the user experience, that really matters. because the end user only ever see the compiled code in action, not the underlying mechanics on which it acts, that's the important part.

no end user care about the quality of code in any other aspect than the lack of bugs. excpet maybe performance, but I have a feeling performance might fall under something else than quality.

anyways, if it looks like code from hell, but runs like heaven - what do I care? and no matter how hard you try, "but it's really neat code, look - comments and everything!" is a really piss-poor excuse for buggy software. 

I'm still not convinced that there are many objective criteria when it comes to art.

Quite right--I agree, and that was a point I made. You can't objectively measure something that is defined to be subjective. Logical impossibility.

Regarding games--no matter what some people say, games contain at least some aspects of art, so they are not 100% objectively quantifiable. Even their purpose is subject to interpretation. Of course, you still should be able to examine some of it objectively, such as the build quality and the reward/punishment system. But when a game becomes popular based on the art style or atmosphere (and to some extent the story) then whether or not the game is good is not affecting its popularity. The atmosphere may have good build quality, but there will be different opinions about whether or not the atmosphere is appealing, and the actual gameplay may indeed be cack. 

Everyone's so mean and aggravated and uptight about this all the time. They're games. GAMES. Play it and if it entertains you, you like it. 

 

Has anyone chanced upon a program that will read character stats in Morrowind? I've searched various forums and the web but can't find much relevant. I've seen one program that will allow you to create profiles and edit those, but not ones you create in-game. 

<quote>But when a game becomes popular based on the art style or atmosphere (and to some extent the story) then whether or not the game is good is not affecting its popularity.</quote>

Isn't that goodness too? 

It just happens. I for one, am not espcially suprised with the review. Raven's been a worthless developer for years now, and have yet to put out a top notch, high quality game. SoF was a mediocre game, as was it's sequel. Why do you people seem so suprised that Q4 is yet another mediocre game? If id made it, I'd be ranting with the rest of you, but id didn't make this. Raven did. Check Raven's track record, it's less than stellar over the years. Why do you expect something so much different here?

http://www.forumplanet.com/PlanetQuake/topic.asp?fid=1486&tid=1760549&p=1 

I'm all stroggified by that discussion board.

I wonder if it gives cool gameplay things when you're a cyborg. 

if all you want to do is to check out stats or set them, you can do all that from the console.

i forget most of them, but it's like 'set level #' or 'set acrobatics #' etc etc 

1. In that instance people would subjectively like/dislike the art. As I mentioned, art is interpretive, and therefore subjective. Art can be subjectively good, but it cannot be objectively--or universally--good.

2. No, the game itself (i.e. gameplay) might be mediocre at best and might not be fun to play at all. 

there's more to some games than gameplay. Sometimes it's the story, or the artwork, graphics or sounds, or whatever, that can make a game good even if gameplay is mediocre. Likewise, they can destroy an otherwise good game if they suck. 

I don't know why I'm even arguing this with you since you're clearing missing the premise.

Please re-examine the definitions of "subjective", "objective", "actual", and "universal" and then try again. 

Please re-examine the definitions of "subjective", "objective", "actual", and "universal" and then try again.

It's mandatory in order everybody have "the same language"... ;P 

ok, it was half-hearted anyway,. 

Go to www.google.com and enter the word "Failure". Now hit "I'm feeling lucky" and see where you end up. I wonder if it will be the same place as me.

I am deeply sorry to anyone who already knows about this. I'm sorry for causing you to read two sentences and this apology. I won't waste any more of your precious time. 

Sorry, that was three sentences, an apology lasting a further three sentences, and this correction. 

whip up a QSP map and all will easily be forgiven and forgotten. 

http://united+offensive.istheshit.net/ 

Where the feck is your bio at Ravensoft.com? 

I've often asked the same. 

They probably looked at the out of date bio on Lunarun.com and decided if he couldn't keep his own upto date they didn't need to make one for him. :) 

Lunarun? 

Moonbuggy Race! 

http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/16507.html 

pretty neat, and a good effort at non doom3 textures
very short
wierd thing with the guns-- there was a shotgun and a machinegun in a case, but i couldn't pick either of them up. (i gave myself the shotgun via console, then didn't bother with the machine gun)

i think the map shows a lot of potential for more in that theme (haunted mansion/house, typical spooky halloween type stuff).

d3's dynamic lights weren't really used to full effect, unfortunatly. no really cool shadows or whatnot.

overall, nice, but too short to really form an opinion.