|
Posted by sock on 2012/12/09 21:43:59 |
Finally after months of testing, tweaking and huge amounts of coding, drawing and level design I present my MOD 'In the Shadows' which features three maps, two game play modes (vanilla quake/stealth) and a readme file packed full of hints (for daz)
This is not the final release, I do have plans for other maps, but I want to get feedback on what I have created so far and there is a lot of new toys to play with. The MOD is designed to only work with Fitz and Mark V engines because these are the only two I did testing with.
Please take the time to record some demo's with Fitz because this will be the perfect way for me to understand how you played the maps. If there any problems or things you think should be different, please let me know.
Download Link V1.1 (16.6mb)
Web Page Readme v1.1 Moddb
Recommended Engines:
Fitz0.85 Mark V
Screenshots (1024x768)
Image 1 Image 2 Image 3
Video's on youtube
Stealth Combat Stealth Mechanics |
|
|
Plan B - New Version 1.1
#66 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 16:57:26
The vault button has annoyed me long enough, it has soured the release of this mod for me because hardly anyone can find it. Don't worry I know this is my fault for hiding in a stupid place. :(
I am going to fix this and all the other feedback I have gotten so far in a new version for next week. It also gives me the chance to add a few more things that were missing because of timing problems with the release.
@spirit, I would recommend waiting until next week and a better version which will fix my design flaws.
@Fern, that would be amazing if you could help with the sounds because I am not that good at that stuff and I want to fix all the other bugs first. Shoot me an email (mememe[at]simonoc.com) and I can let you know all the sound stuff I currently use.
To anyone else who has not had the chance to play the mod yet, hold off until next week. Version 1.1 will be a much better design featuring less getting lost in the start map!
If anyone feels they want to see more stuff or has a groovy idea for something in the MOD, please let me know and I will try to get it in the new release for next week.
#67 posted by skacky on 2012/12/12 17:50:42
The only thing I'd like to see added is footsteps to help the player guess where the monsters are if they do not have a visual on them, but it's definitely not a priority since I find the gameplay great as it is, and besides it's probably quite hard to do properly. Concerning the switch, I had no real problem finding it since I figured out I had to look for something to open the gate and I often look every nook and cranny for secrets, but I can definitely understand some people got annoyed and did not find it. However like most people I thought I would be thrown into stealth mode straight away in the start map, but I soon understood that it would come later.
Also, I recently figured out that poison bolts can cause infighting. I know this is written somewhere, but I was delighted when I found this out and couldn't stop laughing at the sight of a Shambler murdering two knights because I shot him in the back.
Castle Demos:
#68 posted by ijed on 2012/12/12 18:11:33
I die a lot.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2umayft2odrq8c/ijed_castle_demos.zip
I kept thinking that the fade-out closets could be invisible / inviolate to the monsters. So that if or when the player screws up they still have a hidey hole to recover in / escape to.
Footsteps
#69 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 18:18:22
I can certainly add all the code for this to every monster but there is a couple of problems with this.
1) I would need good footstep sounds for every monster and the player.
2) There is no surface information in quake so all footsteps would sound the same regardless of what they were walking on, which is odd.
3) If there are a lot of monsters around it will get very noisy with all the different footsteps. The sound attenuation is already different depending on what engine is used. (damn engine coders grrr) and very large areas will get very noisy. Probably will have to do range checks to play the sound within a certain range.
The vault button is in a stupid location and I am fed up watching demo's of frustrated people going up and down between the vault and the temple looking for a simple switch. It does not need to be hidden, I will just stick it at the end of the room next to the book about the amulet.
Well I could add a poison infighting tutorial after the initial poison training but I did not want to show every feature. I assumed people would love to discover some stuff by accident on their own. This is tricky because it is a cool feature but I don't want to make the tutorial really long as well.
#70 posted by Spirit on 2012/12/12 18:19:37
Damn shame this did not make the top 100. :(
#71 posted by jt_ on 2012/12/12 18:20:01
Using fitz 0.85 with command line `fitzquake085.exe -game shadows -heapsize 64000 +map start,` I don't have the crossbow when I start, there's no eye above any enemies head and the axe isn't a killing blow from behind. Anyone have an idea why that would happen (and yes, I've correctly installed the mod :p). This also happens in qbism and directq.
#72 posted by Spirit on 2012/12/12 18:25:42
jt_, same assumption that I had. It is actually vanilla gameplay at the beginning, stealth comes later at some point.
Start Map
#73 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 18:27:24
@jt_, The MOD does not start with stealth because I want players to understand other stuff first, like new pickups, new monsters and the chance to read some books. You get the stealth mode once you have completed the training. (Find the vault)
I thought it would be far too frustrating playing stealth mode without any clues what to do and I want players to try the other maps. I would recommend waiting till next week for a better release version.
"Everybody Derps Sometimes" (-- D.A.Z.)
#74 posted by negke on 2012/12/12 18:30:33
This mod is really beyond awesome. It's not often that someone produces such a highly refined work with so many new and modified aspects and such a huge sense of perfection(ism). Apart from the level design and brushwork, everything is new or touched up, however obvious or subtle - almost a new game.
I recommend everyone to try the stealth mode. It takes some getting used, but once you got the hang of it, it's a lot fun and adds a good bit of replayablility to the levels. Mind you, this is coming from someone who usually stays clear of stealth games for a lack of skill and patience.
Read the hints in the readme and practice a bit. I think the hardest part to master (especially for a less-seasoned player or non-mapper) is getting a feeling for the enemies bounding boxes and where to shoot the distraction bolts without hitting them. And it's important to axe them right in the back - not the sides as it often happens when you approach them to clumsily or imprecisely.
Concerning the problems of getting lost: I agree the fact that the Vault button is hidden is unfortunate in this case, because in the current state of the mod (=main maps missing), the bonus maps that are accessed through the vault tutorial shift to the center of attention, which, however, isn't made clear ingame. The button itself and the original setup as well as the idea behind it are fine and wouldn't be an issue if this was the full version of the mod.
To be honest, I'm rather disappointed at all you supposedly seasoned Quake players once again failing at the basic Quake skills of navigation (exploration) and secret finding - for the button isn't hard to find at all. And if someone got lost in the parts prior to the vault, Quake probably isn't the right game for them anyway. But I can somewhat imagine/understand how people not used to single player mode may have more problems finding the way to proceed in the vault. So I hope Sock changes this in a way that benefits the demo character of the mod, but does not oversimplify it for the full version.
Though perhaps it would be a good idea to have the stealth tutorial section appear in an individual map for quick access (in addition to the one in the start map). The information that poison bolts cause infighting could be appear in one of the shadow story books, by the way.
#75 posted by necros on 2012/12/12 18:35:31
To be honest, I'm rather disappointed at all you supposedly seasoned Quake players once again failing at the basic Quake skills of navigation (exploration) and secret finding - for the button isn't hard to find at all. And if someone got lost in the parts prior to the vault, Quake probably isn't the right game for them anyway.
It may be a more generalized fault of the start map's layout.
It is designed to funnel players to the level change triggers quickly, but the map plays like a normal map at the start, so when you get to the end triggers with a lot of the map unexplored, you feel like you missed something which puts you into backtrack mode.
#76 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 18:40:12
It is designed to funnel players to the level change triggers quickly
Yeah the design is certainly trying to focus players towards the final triggers with one way lifts and loops (temple stairs) to stop players getting lost in dead ends. One of the big problems with this mod is an identity crisis, it should decide if it is going to be stealth or not. Plus the shifting focus to the vault so the bonus maps can be played screwed with the vault button logic. Originally it was designed to be a secret only.
Here Are Some Footsteps
#77 posted by ijed on 2012/12/12 18:44:45
#78 posted by negke on 2012/12/12 18:49:34
Well, it's a hub map with more functions than a regular start map would have. It's also supposed to be replayed on normal or stealth mode several times, with changing routes and enemy setups. In this sense the funneling function loses a lot of its importance.
The layout itself isn't overly complicated or confusing (lower level->upper level->spiral staircase/vault and a couple of extra rooms. With two level exits on the upper level (currently inaccessible) and two in the vault room. The only source of confusion I can accept in light of the inaccessible main exits is the secretness of the vault (progress) button.
Please No Footsteps :P
#79 posted by negke on 2012/12/12 18:57:53
Re: disappointed
It's just that whenever I see people complain about nonlinear layouts where they get lost, I cringe (especially in a case like these maps - they are certainly no sprawling mazes). People are often quick to critize modern games for their linearity and revel in the good old times where (Quake) games allowed or required a good amount of exploration. But when it actually comes to exploration, they fail to find their way and critize a feature they previously praised.
I'm certinaly not a master of navigation, but I can manage here and elsewhere, so this always suprises me again. (Hope sock doesn't blow my cover! :O)
I Had NO Trouble
#80 posted by Drew on 2012/12/12 18:58:49
finding the vault button.
I was already in switch hunting mode due to the liberal peppering of secrets (and the frequent use of hidden shootable switches) throughout the level.
Ditto
It's probably better to not hide it in 1.1, though.
#82 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 19:13:35
@ijed, thanks for the zip :)
@negke, I can add the footsteps as a global impulse toggle? would that be better? default is off but players can turn them on if they want more sound?
I can't really comment on the navigation of the start map anymore because I know where every trigger, spawn, item is and I placed every brush! So the start map feels really straight forward to me, but people are getting lost and it all falls apart at the vault with the button.
One other problem is the demon trap at the beginning, the buttons on the walls are too confusing and only one button should be on the wall (depending on route) so players know which button to press.
I was totally surprised by how many people (in the demo's I have seen) picked up the silver key and walked across the room to the second silver key door!?! I was hinting at which one to try first (the right route is harder) but most people ignore the door infront of them.
The whole mess of modern games being too linear is because developer want players to progress and I can totally understand this. I want players to see the rest of my mod and not give up on the first map! There is nothing more disappointing than seeing a player frustrated and giving up because the design is wrong.
#83 posted by negke on 2012/12/12 19:29:41
Optional, default off footsteps sounds like something I could live with.
Even though the 'nearest' button looks obviously pressed and unusable, it's indeed somewhat inconsistent insofar as the corresponding cage is not in the lowered position. I don't think you should necessarily remove the unusable button entirely, though, considering the 'logic' of the room/mechanisms. Maybe only make it look blocked or locked (padlock?). Other instances of double buttons, however, can be changed so that only one button appears depending on the route (an example would be the two vault buttons).
Taking the opposite door sounds like something I would do, too. It's a bit of an exploration reflex. If there's an arrow saying "go here to proceed", I deliberately check out the other direction to make sure not to miss something worthwhile. A typical "don't push this button" situation. :)
#84 posted by Spirit on 2012/12/12 19:32:13
Tried again, got lost in the statue area again.
Track III from http://www.discogs.com/Isothesis-Cocoon-Of-Red-Light/release/932941 fits perfectly, not free though sadly. If you are interested in properly free soundtrack music I will try more. ;)
Music
#85 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 19:41:52
@spirit, If you can find some free (creative common) music that could be played in background that would be awesome. But it should be something low key and ambient so it does not drown out important sound clues.
I suppose the perfect situation is getting a musician to create proper mood pieces that could be switched depending on what is happening, combat, moody exploration, special encounters etc. Something for the wish list. :/
I can certainly setup background music files as a toggle impulse command so players can decide if they want to listen to music or not.
Spirit
#86 posted by negke on 2012/12/12 19:44:32
On both sides of the statue hall are spiral staircases that lead down to the vault area. It's practically impossible to get lost there (especially since you now know you have to look for a secret button down there).
#87 posted by Spirit on 2012/12/12 20:04:20
negke (and sock of course): http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/its-demo1e-start-normal-firstrun-Spirit-more.7z
I will try again now that I know where to look. :P
CC music for sure. I got loads of Ambient. Just now I listened to https://archive.org/details/tlhotra012 "Labio maternal" while playing, fits nicely. http://altusmusic.ca/rem/ might work too but I am not 100% sure about the ND clause.
I REALLY dislike the quake.rc binding the mousewheel the modern way. In the good old days mouse down = next, mouse up = prev.
#88 posted by sock on 2012/12/12 20:24:29
@spirit, awesome I will download it and see how it goes with a stealth run. By the way what is the best way to include this with quake mods? wav? ogg? I assume I need to save this as 16 mono?
quake.rc, I added mouse wheel bindings because the default engine settings has none and it drives me nuts. I tried to add as many useful things to the quake.rc as possible and I assumed anyone could it extract it from the pak file and change it how they wish. Maybe it might be better to distribute the file outside of the pak file so it can be changed easier?
Quake.rc
#89 posted by Preach on 2012/12/12 21:04:35
Quake.rc is supposed to be the file that the players agree not to modify. What might be a reasonable solution would be to modify it centrally so that the binding of the mousewheel comes earlier in the quake.rc file than the class to config.cfg and autoexec.cfg, so players which already have it bound will get their defaults, and players who don't get the mod's setting.
Erratum
#90 posted by Preach on 2012/12/12 21:05:34
That should read:
earlier in the quake.rc file than the call to config.cfg and autoexec.cfg
Too much typing about class in the other thread...
|
|
You must be logged in to post in this thread.
|
Website copyright © 2002-2024 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.
|
|