There was no way the map could have been this big and stayed within all limits (just look at the terrain for a start)

No doubt splitting the original map was the right thing to do. But what I meant by possible vanilla optimization is the exceeding of the edicts limit in the first map ("only" around 40 less required) and the lightmaps (65 instead of 64) in the third. 

Also how the fuck do you get the GA at the start of map1, that drove me mad!! 

GA: shootable switch hard to spot from where you need to be although you can see it easily later on and can see the GA coming out of its cubby hole but you can't get to it from down there(bastard, eh?)

http://www.freefilehosting.net/thisonionga 

Map 1 - GA : There is a book in the GA room with the word "shoot"! Took me forever to see it. A bit extreme for a GA.
Map 1 - Zombie pit (directly below MH on wooden beam) - No idea how the grate in the floor opens. no buttons, no clues.
Map 1 - RA on an alcove in main lava room, directly below starting area. No clues how the little door opens.

Map 2 - The broken red window is below the fancy wooden bridge over the chasm of lava. How you jump to that window is beyond me! Spent ages diving into lava and burning to a crisp.

My favourite secrets:
Map 1 - RL at beginning, totally amazing route, love it.
Map 1 - The extra supplies in the first button rooms (lots of dark alcoves on either side). The button even moves on skill level!?! The way the bars slide apart is a fantastic idea.
Map 1 - Thunderbolt and lightning very very frighting! Priceless! :)
Map 2 - YA under fancy wooden bridge, brilliant route
Map 2 - Gargoyle jump to Quad, awesome idea

Played all the maps a second time on Hard (Does anyone else play maps on all skill levels?) and there is a big difference on monster layout. Also feels like some monsters take more damage which feels wrong to me. IMHO health should be consist across skill levels. 

This one is hard (for me anyway as I don't have good mouse skills). Firstly you have to spot that there is something different about the window. Then you have to think enough about it to waste a shell or spike on it. Then you seen the gap, and then you jump.

Two methods that I can do: one, straight onto the window cill; two, onto the parapet, then back off that and drop onto the arch's keystone, then onto the cill, then through the window. It leads to a short cut and you can sneak up on a couple of monsters.

http://www.freefilehosting.net/thisgarlicwindow

Apologies for the crap hosting, should just click and open. I'll look for something better if more shots are needed. 

I had not enjoyed playing a quake map like I did with this since at very last 3/4 years (no kidding, the game sorta grew stale on me).
Guess you got me back into the fold, so thanks a lot!

I ran twice through the sucka and found all secrets and man, were they fun!!!
I found them very "Painkillerish", which, in my book, is a good thing. Really rewards exploration.

I only have 2 minor gripes, both in the 2nd map:
1 - The first time I ran through it, I completely skipped half of it by accident, when the intermission screen came up I was tempted to reload, but did not want to disrupt the flow. It's great to have route choices and freedom, but maybe I would have liked more some hint pointing downstairs before exiting...

2- SPOILER: ...which leads us to the Pentagram secret: I found it a bit annoying having just one chance to get it, since the elevator does not come back down after being activated [the same as the GA atop the railing in some other map that I cannot remember now (1,2 or 3) , come to think of it]. That can be very easily missed.

More in general, I don't like maps that lock down and don't let you roam freely in the end to hunt secrets down, but that's just me...

@ sock:
MAP1
The first GA is easily reached grenade jumping, even if one does not find the kosher "shoot me" book.

SPOILER Zombie grate SPOILER:
Just shoot the grate.

SPOILER Red Armor SPOILER:
Try looking at the main structure pillars from the platform where the music switch is...

MAP2
Jumping from the bridge overlooking the broken window is possible. You land on the sill and the keep on jumping and cursing until you're able to get inside... ;)


Thanks again for a true masterpiece, Mike. Sad to see you move to other pastures... 

Ah, tried that and did it first go. Cool secret. So much detail in these secrets.

I like the few one-shot secrets, surprisingly. Just goes with the style of the maps. 

@the silent, you have to shoot the hinge of the grate to make it drop, which sort of makes sense, but it was missing the visual language! Secrets ending in frustration don't feel good when complete. 

I did shoot a DS round, so I did not catch the fact that you had to shoot the hinge. Bullets spread did the trick...

Tbh, I think that I opened it first time by chance in the process of circle strafing ogres while DSing... 

Once you have the gold key, make your way top of the tower (use RL if your way is locked). Jump at the roof of the final buildings whose door is the golden door. Quickly jump in front of the golden door and enter in before guardians attack kill you. If you get the pentagram before jumping down on the roof it will be a lot easier. 

If you play on Hard and find the runes, you get a small treat at the end of the map (don't expect too much!)

Two runes are visible but not easy to get to; two runes are hidden and require exploration. Some jumping is required but no trick jumps. 

Completed it once with 3 runes and a pent, and then again with 4 runes, I didn't get any treats, I want chocolate or something... 

...my dear... 

I am SO sorry, I hadn't spotted the "Chocolate bonus fell out of level at 0,0,0" error. I guess that's my mapping career well and truly over then :( 

Is where this joint really shines.

Epic. (Death Knights by the dozen in narrow corridors armed only with shotgun suck Mean Bananas, though).

Did not find any difference (apart from the obvious) in map 3. Played on Hard, got all secrets, got all runes... What would the "nominally different ending" be? 

 

htH x 

try down in the big lava cave. 

got the one in the lava cave so obviously missing some other one.

Anyhow, decided to not look anymore for it and just got the pent secret to get past the guardians. Anticlimactic end with the 4 ogres behind the door but everything up until then I really really liked.

Gameplay was occasionally more of a grind than fun but it wasnt as relentless as in some of tronyn's maps and so oyu had plenty of downtime to admire the scenery and soak it all in.

Really classy stuff. 

The difference on hard is that if you get the 4 runes, you get the 'DKnight's tribute' at the exit. They don't appear in the easier skill levels and are missing if you get the Pent in Hard mode. (There is also one other way that you get the tribute without the runes but that was a result of never finishing the map and although I should take complete responsibility for that error, I have decided instead to blame my dead pet spider)

That's why I said nominally different. But of course if you only played on hard AND got the runes first time, you wouldn't see even a nominal difference, would you. Could be a reason to play it again on wimp mode jut to see what the plebs see (snigger, snigger). 

Had a lot of fun playing these. Got my ass handed to me a lot at various stages, but I just got used to saving a lot (I'm a bit out of practice with quake too).

Can see a few ways in which this isn't really "finished", but what the hell, I still had a great time. Thanks for getting this out!

Going to have to play again now I know roughly speaking what's going on... 

I just watched Than's demo, which was great until he died.

I am archiving all my Quake stuff (for posterity, you understand) and would love to see any more demos that anyone made of any of the BDG2 maps. Watching someone else play my maps is such great fun: I'm shouting at the screen, "you walked past that secret", "watch your back here", "noooo, don't go in there yet you haven't got enough ammo to survive".

And I also marvel at the mouse and jumping skills, which I just never mastered, and the different ways that players attack things. Anyway, if anyone has got any 'ego boosts' for me I would be grateful. 

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/formyshambler.zip

Not first runs by a long way but the maps are confusing enough (in a good way) that they might as well be. I did try to recreate some of the chaos and nonsense of my first runs, especially in maps 1 and 2 where I try pretty hard to break the progression.

1 + 1a - first map, think I died in lava.

2 + abcd - second map, I really fucked the progression in this one AND died in lava.

3 _ a + a_alt - third map, with a choice of endings. 

I really appreciate the time and trouble you have taken.

I have only watched the first one but from my point of view it was brilliant. You took all sorts of short cuts and although the Slaughter Room didn't work as planned, it was still good to watch. And the map still stood up well even though you were hitting triggers at the wrong time and in the wrong order.

I am sorry you fell in the lava right near the end; I think the Vermis was just about to die but it meant you missed my explosions there, and I had spent a lot of time on those trying to get the timing right.

I will watch the rest soon and give you a response.

Thanks again. 

I will definitely record a demo this weekend. After all, you deserve as much love as Sock has been getting lately :)