did you play with quoth? (quoth2 to be precise.)
kell.quaddicted.com 

First let me say that the map was in no way overly dark, nor did I experience any slowdowns during gameplay. Constant 85 fps.

This is a really good looking map. When I first saw the screenshots, I thought it was a Doom 3 map, until I looked closer, and noticed it was for Quake.

Despite what everyone else thinks, I enjoy seeing the doom 3 textures in Quake. They look really good, and they're usage in this map was no exception.

Hard skill was harder than I expected. I died about a dozen times. But that's what hard skill is supposed to be, right?

The detail was also stunning. Particularly the area where you extend the bridges to get across. I enjoyed that one.

Can't really complain to much. It was an all around excellent map with plenty of surprises. Just wish it could have been longer though.

Very nice work Distrans. 

I really would not be against playing whole episode of such a D3-like ownages.
PS: is there any way to avoid the slowdowns while using Fitzquake for this map(to change number of audiochannels in config or something)? 

How damn should I activte the EXIT elevator ? Where do I put the golden key ? 

Add "-heapsize 48000" to your command line, that should get rid of the slowdowns. At the moment, the amount of memory needed to load the bsp/quoth stuff means all the model keep getting fetched from disk. This seems to be happening frequently enough that it should be added to the quoth page/readme. 

This is a meticuluosly built and tuned map which is both sonically and visually rich.

If you rush, you'll hate it on skill 2. You have to learn the map and choose routes and tactics carefully. Even then, expect a sound beating. However, you'll feel a sense of accomplishment when you see the Turkey Puncher.

Supplies are well balanced - you just can't be too sloppy with either health or ammo. I was able to finish with enough to spare. Again, think about route planning as it applies to risk and reward.

I like the look of the converted textures and the cramped feel. A tech base should be full of shadows and you should be scared when enemies close in.

Choose a skill setting based on fun and not on assumption. If you're not sure, don't be too proud to start at 0. It's a good enough map to revisit on the search for your correct skill setting. 

But after dying a few times at the start, I dropped down a gear. Managed to complete it eventually, despite some tight moments (the final battle stripped me of armor and dropped me into the red). It's a map that satisfies, despite its size. Apart from one ambush early on (about 10 feet passed the silver key door), which I think is a little on the strong side, especially at skill 1 (where hitscan weapons will produce a rather short and undesireable ending.

The "higher tier" weapons (GL and shaft) are used well, as very little ammo is provided for them, meaning that you have to be careful not to overkill monsters that drop. They also need to be used well (like taking out or weakening multiple monsters with a grenade) if you don't want to be forced to use your standard weapons when you are in intense combat. Speaking of weapons, I found myself using the nailgun much more than I usually do in this level. I usually use shotguns about 80% of the time, but there we

This map doesn't suffer from the flaw that many maps have suffered from, where they start hard and gets easier. This map starts hard and stays hard. It's rather refreshing, in a way, and I definitely feel that some mappers could learn from this map... 

the monsters are so stupid it's so easy to just shoot-duck-shoot if you have a secured rear sector

And why would that be a problem? The player can DECIDE how to approach the combat, it's either easier or more fun - but the player can adjust the difficulty to his skill level. Can you as a level designer not stand to see the player have fun on his own? I thought we all agreed that choice is a good thing.

(that's mostly what gets me so angry about the d3-like gameplay, btw. it's so hard (ie. you die so fast if you don't do the right thing) you don't really have a chance to react to the ambushes -> no decision on my own (during fluid gameplay) -> angryness.) 

...granted, I suppose a little blurb in the Difficulty Settings: section of the .txt (rather than the standard Yes/No) will become SOP in time to come. Not including one this time round is an oversite on my part. 

... the Gold Key operates the EXIT door, after the lift to the surface lowers you should be able to trigger it upward by merely stepping on to it. 

yeah right, blame the player for not approaching your map right, when he sees it for the first time...
Im not gonna say "What kind of idiot puts a polyp over a thin edge above slime." cause we arent making this personal. You simply can witness how much idea players have where to run away and take the fight to an area that profits them from the Ankh`s demo (the appropriate over-slime part). I might be playing pretty straight-forward but thats how it is - and there is reason I play on skill 1 by default. And even if I tend to press forward too much, I am also retreating - but only to find out that the areas I have covered and cleared are re-filled with some deadly enemies (which a first-time player couldnt expect ofcourse).

If you believe that locking a "skill 0" player armed with a nailgun in a small area against a shambler with no cover, or putting a shotty-armed quaker between 2 rl and lg grunts at the very start is a good setup - then we have very different ideas of whats fair. Quoth grunts were made to substitute the higher-ranked monsters in the base-themed levels, and throwing a bunch of them vs weak wepons is not balanced by the very design.

Never mind the bridge comment - mind the health meter - that part wasnt hard or surprising. Having watched my demo I see it was a pure luck I didnt die those 2 times where I was down to 1%... duh.
And another stab at doom3-ishness: not marking the secrets is uncool for atleast 2 reasons: no info and lack of accomplishing 'finding 100%'

Hey, but here is real comeback:
Now I dare you to beat your own map on NIGHTMARE (since you know it inside-out and have a better understanding of quoth enemies) Fair enough? 

I really don't want to get into a slanging match with someone I have such respect for, my response was in no way meant to be an attack...but here goes anyway:

yeah, right blame the level designer for not designing another level where you just meander along doing the same thing you've been doing for the last 10 years...

that damn pesky teleporter, I wish I could find the off switch, and damn I wish I'd paid more attention at the briefing on these new enemy...

...and a surfeit of health leading up to the situation, including a Mega Health just before the encounter

unmarked secrets? huh? there are no secrets in this map

my default level is also normal, that's why I engage testers of an ability far beyond mine, no not fair enough...irrational. 

...and now it should be clear along which lines so let's drop it or take it private... 

http://www.bfeedme.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/beef.jpg 

when shoot-duck-shoot wanking is the optimal play strategy, the game gets boring. 

>... the Gold Key operates the EXIT door, after the lift to the surface
>lowers you should be able to trigger it upward by merely stepping
>on to it.

Well, it doesn't work ! I can open the EXIT door with the gold key, but then the elevator doesn't go down. It is staying upstairs with 5 bubblegum monsters on it. What gives ? 

Are you using Quoth? And not an engine that is known for random funny buggyness (Darkplaces)? 

I demand nightmare demo! 

in sp: not if the game doesn't demand it.

in mp: yes. 

but then the game becomes a tedious job. There is one way to do it with minimum danger (wank the corner) and you up the level of difficulty until even that optimal way is sufficiently hard.

Also, the gameplay involves no decisions since you know the optimal strategy and can always employ it.

If wank the corner is not demanded, then other choices are done purely out of *laziness*, to get through the level faster, even when they are harder to survive. That means the level is too easy in a sense. 

or do something else that I proposed (just for the sake of argument), then the player has to make some decisions, often fast ones, and can not retreat to some beforehand picked always the same optimal strategy.

And that's why people play games, because they can effect the outcome of the game by their decisions.
If you discover an optimal strategy that works and is immediately obvious every time, then it's just repetition and refining that one thing, not a game anymore. 

Got to 69/89 on my first Nightmare attempt. Not that difficult after the start. Failed by falling down a hole into the lower level in the GK room and getting trapped by Plasma Cunts.

Don't think it's much harder on Nightmare to be honest.

I managed to lure the Shambler out of the room - but then after killing him the door closed with me outside it. 

Done, second go. 22:45. Speeds I sent you a demo to speeds[at]bk.ru , feel free to post it up.

All of it went fine EXCEPT the Shambler conflict (which I didn't avoid this time) which is pretty unplayable on Nightmare. I went in with 120+ health and enough GA after having done well with the crappy drones, and the Shambler just stood there and fired (with nowhere for me to hide). Took 120-150 health off and left me with about 10 armour and 2 health. 

ok ok finally play it! didn�t record first demo because was to short...

well brushwork is fucking great 10 of 10!!!

game play boring and crappy hate it 1 of 10!!!

maybe Quoth2 made it like this, but you also have abused of spawns... :( i think this map is not pure Quake because game play in boring and slow! honestly i hated sorry but at least brushwork is fabulous!!!

or maybe i�m a shit player and suck a lot ;)

Who knows?

Anyway nice work ;)