lmao 

invited to the good convos anymore :( 

I'm really leery of the move colleges are making towards offering degrees in game design. Making a game is really a synthesis of so many different things, but you don't really need special training to do game work itself. Look at all of us - we learned it on our own, possibly out of a knack that we have that other people don't. The games industry up to this point was built by guys (and gals) like that.

Some rube with a BFA in "gaming" doesn't seem to me to be a real step forward in game production. Instead of people from all walks of life, with degrees in english and graphic design and whatever else, bringing in all kinds of different interdisciplinary enrichment, you've got people trained by an industry that's already beginning to show a dearth of originality who are going to come in and just keep recycling ideas.

My advice has always been, if you want to do something in the games industry, don't get a games degree with a focus on your field - go somewhere good and get a real degree in art or programming or whatever it is you're after. You'll do more for yourself by being prepared for a future that - shock horror - might not see you working at a game company, and you'll do more for the industry and the games by bringing in ideas and knowledge from outside.

I may, as always, be full of shit. 

You won't see the real universities offering these sorts of mickey mouse degrees, so it's kind of moot IMO.

This sort of thing has been going on for years though, largely made possible by the government's "Bums on Seats" mentality when it comes to higher education.

/UK politics 

http://www.costik.com/weblog/2005_03_01_blogchive.html#111069190589189590

Swiped this off PA. The summary: more graphic power and realism means bigger budgets for games, meaning publishers are less likely to risk money on things that are different and bye bye innovation. 

For MOST ANNOYING SYLESHEET AND ABUSE OF TEXT DECORATIONS EVER 

I whole heartedly agree with you previous mini-essay/rant on gaming degrees. I recently completed a multimedia design program at what quickly became apparent a extremely game focused school. The program I elected to take was in no way related to gaming development, yet about halfway into the program instructors were informed they should be adjusting all assignments to make them adaptable with game dev. So all flash work, became games, all website designs had to be for games, all user interfaces had a game influence. Even my illustration course we had to design a gamebox as a final assignment. Why? Because they wanted to be the first 'gaming college' in our area. At that they succeeded, but they literally shafted every other program they offered. Students who went there for business laws evolving around media, were denied a large chunk of their courses in exchange for new game company related ones. Audio students now were making game sound effects. Needless to say the student body was very unhappy with this radical change and the school lost 70% of its students the following semester.
They brought in "some of the best game developers around" to become their teaching faculty. Guess what original company they all stemmed from? EA just up the street. The school literally turned from a aweseome learning center with great teachers to a factory where students payed to get jobs at EA. All of the teachers with any real credentials up and left (or were let go).
Overall it was pretty disheartening, for both students and faculty alike.

How this all relates to Lunarans post, maybe it doesnt directly... but whatever. 

what's the name of the school? 

a factory where students payed to get jobs at EA

Exactly. If game companies want something like that they can set it up themselves as an internal training program, not coopt legitimate universities into giving them a pool to hire from.

SCAD's another good (bad?) example. They split the computer graphics major into four majors, one of them being Interactive Design and Game Development. The only people teaching in this new major are the computer graphics professors who could figure out UnrealEd. I've avoided it completely and encouraged other people to do the same.

SCAD didn't fork the major because of any kind of industry application or faculty expertise - it was done based on a marketing analysis to see what would get the most students to apply to the school. 

now known as the 'art inst'itute ...k bad joke
but yeah it got bought up by that big US mega coorp art institute, aparently they tempt lots of private institutions with big $$$ then neglect to keep up with the schools upkeep. Essentially the only thing left of the school were its facilities. 90% of the faculty, security, even janitorial staff were replaced with part time help (don't need to pay benefits) result was never being able to find anyone you need, like a secretary to get you your student ID so the part time security guy who doesn't recognize you can let you in...blah blah... lots of fun. 

This kind of stuff is happening in France quite a bit too, lots of computer arts school are either opening game dev sections, or just changing their program for it to be very game dev related... It's often quite ridiculous too, I saw a school where during the first year, your main project is... to make one quake 3 multiplayer map! Maybe I can get hired there as a teacher or something, hehe. =)

I've been looking around for schools recently, and as I was going around some special convention where all the schools present their stuff, it was funny to notice how most the teachers seemed happy when I told them that, NO, I was not interested in their game dev program, but rather in the computer/arts/animation/whatever program, they always had this "whew, finally someone who actually has a clue" look on their faces, hehe. 

the life drawing teachers (when they were still there) talking amongst themselves

teacher 1: "Oh man, next kid to submit another piece of anime I'm going to flunk ASAP"

teacher 2: "same goes with the tortured soul in a trenchcoat!"

teacher 1: "fuck yes! Or the tortured soul in a trenchcoat with anime features!"

yes , they were sick of seeing the same crap. 

I'd like to admit that artists/animators/sound guys would benefit from taking some classes that focused on game asset creation. I've worked with some guys who were plenty talented but were so geared towards making art for offline rendering, or mixing audio for movies or CDs, that they don't have any real understanding of all the techical needs of game assets. The ideal is someone with a strong traditional art/music/etc background that has also been introduced to the needs of games before they get hired and start making 10,000-poly trees and stuff. 

well at this particular school, they did already have at least 1 course geared to online/game media. how to get the most out of limitations for playstation sound. Photoshoppers were taught the do's/don'ts of textures, the classical animators... well I'm not sure what they did, but I know they did game related animation some how. However this was not the focus of their programs, which it became wether they wanted it to be or not. 

and I do agree dont want any 10,000 poly trees. Tho I did see some nice high poly foliage while walking past some of the 3D classes. 

"I may, as always, be full of shit."

You may. But, in this particular case, you're very much not. 

Pretty much everyone I've ever known who has had some association with hiring and firing staff has regarded game-specific degrees as a bit of a joke. Also, I know of at least one company that won't hire artists unless they do actually have some sort of fine arts degree!

That said, the Guildhall seems to have had some success in getting people actually hired, but their course seems very hands-on and I get the impression that not all courses are like this. 

Yes. 

North Carolina State University has a 400-level programming course in video game development; it's an elective in their Comp Sci program. From the course description, it covers the basics of all aspects of game design: level design, art, and programming. I'm planning on taking the course in a couple years in my senior year. I suppose I'll then find out if it's useful or not. But at least they force you to get a degree in something that's still useful for both gaming and non-gaming professions (e.g. graphics, networking, AI). 

their students to be skilled enough both in art and programming - not impossible but not as prevalent - to pass a 400-level Comp-Sci elective? 

Phait: Game programmers need to know how all aspects of the game work. They don't need to be "skilled" in art or level design at all. 

I misread. 

I agree that artists and programmers certainly require some game-related training/ability, but certainly not anywhere near enough to constitute an entire bachelor's degree. 

At the risk of being redundant, the more time you spend learning game-specific stuff, the less time you spend learning technical ability and knowledge.

BTW Lun go answer my e-mail. 

http://66.34.10.12/aaamembersnew/zac/external.htm