Last time I had a peak at level design jobs they all wanted knowledge of something like LUA.

Would Half-Life 2 count as modern? The way its scripting is done via entities and such is pretty much like Quake, very different from the Crysis Flowgraph or Kismet. 

I would say it's modern. 

It's still very hip, the editor is Hammer, there is plenty scope for mapping interesting environments. Map replay-ability is potentially very high, people might play your maps online if they kick ass, maybe.
HL2 is a bit dead really, not much buzz surrounding it nowadays. My 2c. 

TF2 is awesome to map for, big community for it. L4D2 is a lot more involved with a lot less replayability imo, it doesn't get as much mileage as TF2. Plus if your map gets picked up they'll pay you for it. And it's just an awesome game.

Or wait until Portal 2. Or start a UDK mod. Or something. 

I never got into the TF scene. I can't compare.
I guess the art style put me off a bit, I wasn't feelin the cartoon element. But I never got round to playing it. I remember someone mapping for it on Func at one point. Was it Speeds? Or pjw or something? 

Well, could you potentially show your good design knowledge in something older like Quake but also demonstrate knowledge of more modern editors and scripting systems with something different?
Basically do you have to show the two always in the same project. As powerful as they are you're also limit asset and variety wise with stuff like Crysis or L4D.
Just a thought anyway :p 

http://forums.mapcore.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1552&start=8205

Look what these guys are mapping for, plenty of pro LDs on there too. UDK, Crysis and L4D/TF2 are pretty high on the list it seems.

Personally I intend to map for Crysis and probably ETQW (or some semi-professional looking Doom3 mod) once I get time for it to create a portfolio. Have dabbled in both, but no time due to rmq. I'm starting to really like Crysis though, although was skeptical right after getting it.

Even installed Windows because of modern game LD considerations. x_x Linux is a no-no if you want to do any LD for recent games. Radiant, for example, is missing a lot of stuff that even the Doom3 editor has (which is Windows only). Sandbox? Can forget running that under wine.

Lua is apparently pretty commonly used for scripting, but if you can learn QuakeC or the Doom3 scripting thingy, you can learn Lua.

I think. 

From the limited amount I looked into it the Flowgraph is insanely powerful. Would be very interested to see how much you could change the gameplay with it. More arcadey gameplay (like Doom/Quake) + a modern engine would be my dream atm :p

I'm planning on building a portfolio myself at some point, but the main issue for me seems to be the separation of Level Design from Evironment Art. It's harder to find resources based around demonstrating the design side over just pretty things. I've found a few but not much... 

I remember someone mapping for it on Func at one point. Was it Speeds? Or pjw or something?

Wasn't me. List of games I've mapped for (non-professionally):
Loderunner
Doom2
Quake2
Quake3

and an absolutely silly number of Trackmania maps.

And yeah, these days you're going to want to have something more modern in your portfolio than Quake maps if you're wanting to get hired as a level designer. At least something from the last few years.

Quake maps can demonstrate as much skill and creativity as any other sort of mapping (more, in some cases, due to limited tools and engine limits), but you're really rolling the dice if you want a prospective employer to look past the dated eye-candy. 

What do you map for professionally? :) 

http://ompldr.org/vN2NtcA/home.png

I plan on making a left 4 dead 2 map of my neighborhood/city, so I started with my house. I'm pretty sure it's not to scale; I plan on actually measuring tomorrow, but that's basically what my house looks like. I just need more time to work on this. :E 

What do you map for professionally? :)

I've worked on a few things through the years. I'm probably happiest with Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna, Quake 4, and Wolfenstein. 

L4D2 still uses Hammer?! Fuck me, that game must look average. 

But there are a lot of hi-res assets, and the engine has great lighting. The animations are very good, and the character models are of an extremely high detail level. TBH it looks like a DX9 game (cause its is I suppose) but the bulk of the maps are of a high standard, the art style is basically realism-based but with a B-movie poster style. But the most hi-res thing about the game - the gameplay! 

Well, WIP L4D shots I've seen usually look less "eyecandy" than Crysis or Unreal, though by no means bad. It's just that a lot of people tend to build a couple boxes with orange textures, then slap brick textures on and scatter broken cars all around.

> It's harder to find resources based around demonstrating the design side over just pretty things.

Yeah, it seems so.

I can only suggest looking into neighboring categories of games, such as platformers, RPGs etc and trying to find what makes them interesting. I myself am making it a point recently to play major titles from the recent years and analyze them. Since established mechanics in FPS are kinda worn out - escort the NPC, defend the camp, collect X items, kill X enemies, etc - looking into other games can be inspiring. Nothing against established mechanics, if they're pulled off solidly - but if something's old, I wanna put a little shine on it...

I am guilty of shamelessly stealing from Tomb Raider: Anniversary when it comes to traps - that game is like a trap constructor's manual and many elements can be transferred to Quake for example (and still work).

Reading this thread at quakeone.com:

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-talk/chat-o-rama/6276-you-find-yourself-e1m1.html

I was thinking it could be insanely cool if you could really construct new weapons in an FPS by finding a broken rocket launcher and combining it with, say, an explobox and batteries to create a flame thrower... if you could really make that feel as if you had freedom in constructing things.

U-Invent machines come to mind. 

The word/role level design is used differently at different companies. Often these days it's split into different parts so that building the level and doing the scripting is different jobs. And the building part will look very different too, a lot of the pretty geometry may be done by an "environment artist" and not the "level designer".

So you don't really have to learn lua or some other form of scripting unless that's the part of levels you want to work with. 

Yeah my passion is very much about building the level, scripting and gameplay. Art is a necessary evil to make it presentable :p 

Hey, I've just got that crazy idea about remaking original quake maps (few maps, episode, all episodes?) with alternative paths :). Quake community did a lot of weird things in last 15 years, why not make a campaign, or whatever you call it with old single player maps reworked, so the are not linear, or at least you can finish a level by more then one way. It could be cool, as it doesn't require as much work as making new sp maps, and it still could be really cool, with new places, new paths, secrets and stuff. I would like to see every map to be possible to finish in at least 3 different ways, so you can play and experience sinle maps few times, and it would be different all the time :). Probably just crazy idea, but you never know... 

 

i had a similar idea to remake episode 1 with the exact reverse player progression: every exit becomes a start, and the start points become exits, and you work your way from e1m7 back down to e1m1 ... maybe even repurpose start.bsp as a boss arena. 

That would be ... how would that work? 

We once had a speedmap pack where we reversed maps. Or remixed them, can't remember. I made one start on its end but only implemented a small part of the rest. I loved that idea and it very interesting. 

well, it would definitely require some creative adaptation, like moving keys around, adding buttons or triggers, etc. 

here's a map you can try out: http://necros.quaddicted.com/downloads/ne_qep1_ext.zip

it has the same basic structure as that ne_qep1 map i made a year or so ago. it is e1m1->e1m7 glued together into one giant map, except this version has a huge outdoor area built around the original maps to connect them together and the path to the end is different.

there's no source map in there, though... this map's source was lost last year when my hdd died so it will never be finished (there were a bunch of areas that are unfinished) but it's playable to the end, at least. 

please note, the above map may not have enough ammo to complete...

it was originally going to be for that melee mod i've been trying to make. in the old version of the melee mod, it played a lot more like an rpg game... sort of like a 3d 1st person diablo, really. you had to level up by killing monsters or getting secrets, so most of the monsters were placed without any thought for ammo since the player was using mana that recharged and a melee weapon.