the pox_extras mod had example maps with water surfaces visible from inside the water model... i think it was made using extra-thin brushes or something, maybe check the map sources or docs. 

I'll play some more today and let you know if I get anywhere. 

A 1 unit func-water brush placed either inside the other brush or abutted against it does give a surface effect.

Now I will have to see if moving the brush still works with the same effect.

I will revert... 

I now have it working.

As Preach suggested, a 1 unit func_water brush abutted but not inside the main func_water brush, works: they both rise at the same time (triggered). From inside the brush i.e. underwater, when you look up you now see the surface. When viewed from above the surface i.e. you have solved the puzzle and escaped, there is no z-fighting. And when moving through the water and breaking the surface, everything looks fine.

By the way, no clipping takes place - is this because they are entities and not ordinary brushes?

Don't know what all the fuss was about ;-) 

I tried the moving water trick with the pox mod and found it quiet hard to make it arise for large brushes along distances. Also the surface isn't animating, although there is an animated texture for it.

I tried the old fashioned way also by making the room a func_train into a cube of water.
It seems you found a good solution for it.

Can you provide a map with an example?
I am really curious to it, as I feel the fuss somewhere I am loosing you're explanation. 

OK to use the registered e-mail for you?

I can send a sample map today. 

I�d be glad to explore. 

Hang on! Don't get carried away. The map I am sending you is not the FMB map the moving water has been designed for.

It is a single room showing the water brush rising and the use of the 1 unit brush to create a visible surface.

So not much to explore :-) 

You have mail. 

I have received it, I will investigate it. 

Does this map is used in support of the extra progs,or the FMB progs?
I get a func_water missing. 

Sorry, I kind of assumed from your earlier post that you had the progs.dat for this.

It should work with the Extras progs.dat if you have it. If not, you are welcome to my FMB one (the latest one also fixes the music/savegame problem, if you are into music in your levels that is) 

I'll try them. 

What programs are necessary for creating a Quake map?

How do you go about designing a map? 

What platform are you on? Have you ever used a level editor before? 

I'm using Windows XP Pro. I've used UnrealEd once or twice. 

Its very easy to use, its basically Hammer. You start off with loads of good textures to use. The Quake .wad files are all converted to Half-Life .hlwad flies for compatibility with the programme.

To make a Quake map you first create a .map file using an editor of your choice. The idea is to use 3D shapes (cubes, cylinders, prisms) to make an area which is sealed off from the 'outside'. If the inside area of your map leaks into the outside area the map will not compile properly. Which brings us to the second part - you have to compile the .map file into a .bsp file by running a QBSP programme on it, the it has to be 'visually optimised' by another programme called VIS, then the lighting has to be rendered with another programme called LIGHT.

All of these tools are supplied with the Worldcraft 3.3/Quakeadapter package, and autmatically set up ready to use. There's a good tutorial to get you started in the help section of Worldcraft.

here's a link:

http://www.quakeone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1242

that should get you started, welcome to Quake 1 mapping! I started doing it less than a year ago, and I just released my 9th map, so I'm sure if you try you'll be successfull!

I would experiment a bit with the above mentioned programmes, I'm sure you'll figure it out, but if you need help you can always ask here, lots of people will help.

As for designing a map, different people use different methods, some draw ideas out on paper first, some people build maps from the ground up.... ;-P 

I personally preferred QERadiant to Worldcraft but that's a somewhat religious argument. If you were on a Mac, I was going to give you the ToeTag pitch but ... oh well. Heh. 

Another vote for Radiant here (GtkRadiant 1.2 or 1.4). Unfortunately it isn't terribly easy to set up for Q1 editing.

Damn it, if I wasn't such an asshole I'd have a package and tutorial ready for new guys to use. (I've been meaning to do this for a while now, but I've been too "busy" (aka lazy)) 

whats the difference? 

It's better in every way.

Honestly, the only thing I preferred about Worldcraft compared with Radiant was that Worldcraft would let you create illegal brushes (that you were attempting to form into a perfectly legal brush) without killing the brush. 

I'll have to give it a try 

I think Radiant will let you do that too, if you turn off "vertex editing splits face". Not entirely sure though.

Just don't use GtkRadiant 1.5 onwards. Don't be lured in by the "native Q1 support" shit. They've changed the basic brush editing/manipulation controls (and not for the better). Sigh, must not begin rant. It'd be quicker for me to dig up the old whinges rather than typing it again... 

OK, does anyone know what the magic formula is in C for converting from UV coordinates back into Quake texture vectors?

I know how to go from vectors to UVs (that code is inside of QBSP), but how do you go the other way? If we could figure that out, some real texturing muscle could be added to ToeTag and other level editors. 

Oh and Fribbles, I would love to read some of those old rants if you were being serious there. Are they somewhere that could be linked?