This is nothing personal regarding you or your map, spy... I am always bitching about this every time this issue comes up. Sorry.

I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days. In doing so you're restricting engine choice and possibly excluding some people from playing your map. In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason. 

I put in the effort to ensure my maps run in FitzQuake. I am not flippant.



My maps are fucking awesome, in case you hadn't noticed. 

My maps are fucking awesome, in case you hadn't noticed.

Somewhere in the Dimension of the Damned I hear Roy G Batty whooping a, 'That's the Spirit!'. 

Mr. Fribbles wrote:
I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days...In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason.

Spy wrote:
i thought about to split the map, but it'll ruin my -->vision<-- of map

50 monsters/3 secrets, good night ? 

"I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days. In doing so you're restricting engine choice and possibly excluding some people from playing your map. In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason."

*raises glass*

Well said! 

thats what I do. They're my friends. They let me know when to stop mapping cause the map is big enough! Funny how several engine limits will be touched at the same time.

I'm at the limit for Marksurfaces, Clipnodes and Bmodels. I think I must be pretty close to edicts too...

Its easier to avoid breaching engine limits when you know where they all are and how to monitor them.... 

runs in winquake...

that's pretty impressive if you ask me :)

Ricky: I dunno what happened to the textures, but they were for Q3. I can send you the set if you like, but they aren't that great and you'd need to convert them to q1 format. You are probably better off using Sock's metallic industrial textures or trying the kingpin set, which work great in Q1. If you want to use kingpin, I can send you a tidied up version of the megawad that contains just the textures you'd be most likely to use and named nicely so that the Worldcraft doesn't fuck things up when it encounters certain texture names. 

textures that mix well with Quake also mix well with Evil Lair #3 set for a nice tech/industrial feel. 

...what HT said :)

Kell: unfortunately, some people haven't :(

re: limits - Having a conversation with Baker on this point might be enlightening. His self installers are very popular for a reason. We worked hard to keep Travail playable in standard Fitz, and to make it as simple as possible to install (i.e. simple pak0) but still some people didn't play it till it was converted to self install. Go figure... 

I'm working on my remix here and ... OK, let's say there's a func_wall in a map covering up a teleporter. If that func_wall doesn't have a targetname and none of it's spawn flags are set, it's never going to go away right? It almost looks like they intended to have this teleporter be revealed at some point but then never bothered to hook it up.

Is that right or am I missing something there? 

...like make hollow spheres which you're never gonna see the inside of!

They probably were on a time limit, and were rushing to get finished! 

Oh no, it appears I'm wrong. The walls do indeed vanish in deathmatch. Weird. I thought you had to set all 3 skill spawnflags for that to happen. I guess setting none works as well.

Learn something new every day! 

Oh god, never mind. This is how it's supposed to work.

Hi everyone, it's my first day mapping!!1! 

+ spawnflags, mdl. Could this possibly be used for any nice trickery or compatibility issues? 

You need to set the "not in dm" (worldcraft name, not sure of the number) flag, not the skill flags. Also, the flags work on just about any entity. Not sure about static ents like func_illusionary, walltorches and sounds, but you can set all trigger setups to not appear in dm. If you load dm3rmx in sp and then dm with showbboxes turned on in fitzquake, you can see the difference... it's a very big difference. I think I culled almost everything. apdm3 is the same - you might as well optimise using the flags as much as possible.

Quoth adds support for coopflags, but afaik they work a little bit differently to the other flags, so I'm not sure how reliable using those will be on things other than enemies and perhaps triggers. Preach will know.

Also, you can use spawnflags on info_intermissions and have different intermissions per skill setting or for dm, so you could even make some kind of ending to your map and emulate games like contra where you get a shit ending unless you do the map on hard :) 

people put more than one info_intermissions in maps! (duh) 

Welll, if you have more than one then Quake picks one randomly. 

I didnt know that either!

Infact it took me to this map to realise that you can set a mangle key. Weird tho - the first number (yaw?) seems to be the negative of what it would if it was a light mangle key. i.e. -15 deg = 15 deg.

Either that or i've gone mad
:D 

Coopflags should work correctly on all entities currently in quoth, the main difference between them and normal flags is when the removal occurs. The engine removes things with spawnflags before the spawnfunction for that entity is run. We can't do that for coopflags, because the first time an entity appears to us in QC is when the spawnfunction gets called. So instead, an entity with these flags is removed under two circumstances:
1) If it is made into a static entity - so you can remove torches in coop - although one might ask why you'd bother.
2) At the start of the first frame.

Any kind of entity will be removed if it has these flags, but the difference is the spawn function will already have run, resulting in two pitfalls. So firstly the precaches for all entities will be run regardless of their coopflags. Secondly, any effect an entity has on the game during their spawn function will happen even if they are marked with coop flags. For example, putting NOT_IN_COOP on a info_command_spawn won't prevent the command being sent in coop, as the entity sets the commands during it's spawn function then removes itself. It's fairly rare for an entity to have that kind of effect though. One of the cases that's caught and dealt with is an entity trying to spawn a static sound when it has coopflags, again the wall-torches are a good example.

The precaches thing might sound a bit wasteful, but it only causes a problem if you have some precaches that only ever appear in coop and some different ones that only appear in non-coop. Otherwise it's the one with the additional precaches that runs into the engine limits anyway. Also note that all map bmodels are precached regardless of whether they get used or not, so more thorough coopflags would not help there. 

Im horribly confused on the mangle field myself. Some Quake references say it's a pitch,yaw,roll angle field and others say that it's indicating a location in the world to look at.

Which is it? 

viewpos in the console and it'll give you a loadout or where you are and which direction you're looking in (its the second one). Use this with noclip to get good intermissions.

intermissions do have a weird angle setup, different from all the others, but there you go. 

It's definitely a pitch,yaw,roll angle field and not a specific world position to look at.

It's still confusing though - I'm pretty sure some entities handle it differently to others (as in sometimes it's yaw,pitch,roll instead, or whatever). I could be wrong here, but I definitely never fully made sense of it.. I always seem to have to trial and error it when I set up an info_intermission or something. 

a light pointing north, tilted down 45 degrees towards the ground would be 90 -45 0, the third number required for no reason whatsoever (!?)

One pointed east, perpendicular beam to the ground would be 0 0 0

One pointed straight up or down would be 0 90 0 or 0 -90 0


This sort of explanation would hopefully help with lights (get you pointed in the right direction), but I've tried a mangle key with info_triggered_lightning (or whatever the quoth entity was) and had no success, and the first number of the three for an info_intermission seens to be the polar opposite of what it would be if it were a light....

:-/ 

Polar opposite is the wrong term.

I mean a value of 45 0 0 would be a light with its beam perpendicular to the ground pointing north east. If it was an intermission with the same value it would be pointing south east. 

That's why I can never get it straight... it's different on lights and info_intermission entities. I guess this is why - here's the specs for the intermission entity:

/*QUAKED info_intermission (1 0.5 0.5) (-16 -16 -16) (16 16 16)
The camera point for the intermission. Use mangle instead of angle, so you can set pitch or roll as well as yaw. 'pitch roll yaw' Quake does a random pick if more than one exists. If no info_intermission entity is set, Quake uses the player start.

Here's the spotlight comments for Tyrlite:

Spotlights can be optionally aimed by specifying yaw and pitch values, instead of targeting an info_null entity. Add a new key in the form "mangle" "# # 0". The first # is the yaw angle, 0 to 360 degrees around the Z-axis. The second # is the pitch angle, 90 to
-90 degrees up to down. The 0 is just a required placeholder.