ok, aguirre, i sent it 

Wrote a reply to this and lost it somehow. Brain explosion or something. Anyway, the essence of it was, unless there's a very good reason why the map exceeds the normal engine limits (or has spanktacular new features that require new engine code) then why bother?

Seriously, why not just cut the map down or split it into 2 maps? Will it seriously destroy the gameplay? I doubt it. It will simply mean that more people are able to play your map, and everybody is happier. :) 

You could split it up.....

thats not *actually* that bad of an idea...

And the Mac users - well - you know the one about the toothless blowjob.... 

I played Marcher because it came bundled with the required exe (which it damn well better do, if you expect me to play it) and because it was top drawer stuff.

Its a bit like complaining because your on-road car wont go off-road, having access to a 4x4 but refusing to use it because you cant be bothered, or something....

Not at all. You're assuming I want to go off-road. I don't. I'm quite happy here, putzing about on the standard old roads with my nice, familiar old engine. :)

Seriously, if you want me to play a map that won't load in FitzQuake, you had better prepare a pretty compelling argument as to why I should bother going out of my way to do so. Or make it as easy as possible to do it (e.g. include the required exe in the zip). Or both.

You might as well tell Kinn, Ijed and Me to fuck off too!

I might as well, but I won't. Besides, I like Kinn. Who is Ijed and what does he have to do with this?

Actually, on second thought, fuck off. Yes. All I'm doing is expressing my opinion, mate. It doesn't really have anything to do with you at all... does it? 

...I dunno, give an inch and they'll take a mile.

Lord, I dont want to have this debate. I have seen Spys map, and I dont want to spoil it for everyone.

Ijed is a legend! He made WARPSPASM. Full of maps which wont run in FitzQuake.

Anyhoo, I think Spys map uses Marcher Fortress progs. So you can run it under Marcher.exe. And you have to install Marcher Fortress to run the map anyway, so wheres the big inconvenience?

I dont want you to play any maps you dont want to, er, Mr Fribbles. If you see a map you dont want to play, then dont play it. It's a free country.

And we all know you dont like maps which break the mould, you were saying on the GA thread the other day, theres no need to repeat yourself.

Anyway, when I said that splitting the map into two might not *actually* be that bad of an idea, I wasnt kidding. It's a pretty obvious suggestion that I wouldnt have thought of. It would mean that Mac users can view the map.
On the other hand, it would make the set up process oven more complicated in a way, it would be a real Frankenstein job, dont you think - map running with Marcher progs, under Fitzquake. That'd be a first! Dont you think people might complain that it was 'too much messing around to set up'? Or something... 

Please play Warpspasm:
http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60073&start=182
Download: http://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/warpspasm.zip 

ha-ha, i thought about to split the map, but it'll ruin my vision of map, maybe i'll release 2 version of map one splited and one not, i dno't wanna after i'll release the map, everybody will complain 'too much ado about nothin' this map isn't that quality as 'marcher fortress' 

And we all know you dont like maps which break the mould, you were saying on the GA thread the other day

Show me where I said that. What the fuck is your problem with me, anyway? All I was doing was expressing an opinion - am I not entitled to do so? 

I'm going to play it, just because you asked nicely. :)

As you can probably tell, I've missed a few Quake things in recent times.*

* as in, the last few years... 

This is nothing personal regarding you or your map, spy... I am always bitching about this every time this issue comes up. Sorry.

I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days. In doing so you're restricting engine choice and possibly excluding some people from playing your map. In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason. 

I put in the effort to ensure my maps run in FitzQuake. I am not flippant.



My maps are fucking awesome, in case you hadn't noticed. 

My maps are fucking awesome, in case you hadn't noticed.

Somewhere in the Dimension of the Damned I hear Roy G Batty whooping a, 'That's the Spirit!'. 

Mr. Fribbles wrote:
I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days...In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason.

Spy wrote:
i thought about to split the map, but it'll ruin my -->vision<-- of map

50 monsters/3 secrets, good night ? 

"I just don't see why everyone is so flippant about exceeding all the usual engine limits these days. In doing so you're restricting engine choice and possibly excluding some people from playing your map. In my opinion this shouldn't be done without good reason."

*raises glass*

Well said! 

thats what I do. They're my friends. They let me know when to stop mapping cause the map is big enough! Funny how several engine limits will be touched at the same time.

I'm at the limit for Marksurfaces, Clipnodes and Bmodels. I think I must be pretty close to edicts too...

Its easier to avoid breaching engine limits when you know where they all are and how to monitor them.... 

runs in winquake...

that's pretty impressive if you ask me :)

Ricky: I dunno what happened to the textures, but they were for Q3. I can send you the set if you like, but they aren't that great and you'd need to convert them to q1 format. You are probably better off using Sock's metallic industrial textures or trying the kingpin set, which work great in Q1. If you want to use kingpin, I can send you a tidied up version of the megawad that contains just the textures you'd be most likely to use and named nicely so that the Worldcraft doesn't fuck things up when it encounters certain texture names. 

textures that mix well with Quake also mix well with Evil Lair #3 set for a nice tech/industrial feel. 

...what HT said :)

Kell: unfortunately, some people haven't :(

re: limits - Having a conversation with Baker on this point might be enlightening. His self installers are very popular for a reason. We worked hard to keep Travail playable in standard Fitz, and to make it as simple as possible to install (i.e. simple pak0) but still some people didn't play it till it was converted to self install. Go figure... 

I'm working on my remix here and ... OK, let's say there's a func_wall in a map covering up a teleporter. If that func_wall doesn't have a targetname and none of it's spawn flags are set, it's never going to go away right? It almost looks like they intended to have this teleporter be revealed at some point but then never bothered to hook it up.

Is that right or am I missing something there? 

...like make hollow spheres which you're never gonna see the inside of!

They probably were on a time limit, and were rushing to get finished! 

Oh no, it appears I'm wrong. The walls do indeed vanish in deathmatch. Weird. I thought you had to set all 3 skill spawnflags for that to happen. I guess setting none works as well.

Learn something new every day! 

Oh god, never mind. This is how it's supposed to work.

Hi everyone, it's my first day mapping!!1! 

+ spawnflags, mdl. Could this possibly be used for any nice trickery or compatibility issues? 

You need to set the "not in dm" (worldcraft name, not sure of the number) flag, not the skill flags. Also, the flags work on just about any entity. Not sure about static ents like func_illusionary, walltorches and sounds, but you can set all trigger setups to not appear in dm. If you load dm3rmx in sp and then dm with showbboxes turned on in fitzquake, you can see the difference... it's a very big difference. I think I culled almost everything. apdm3 is the same - you might as well optimise using the flags as much as possible.

Quoth adds support for coopflags, but afaik they work a little bit differently to the other flags, so I'm not sure how reliable using those will be on things other than enemies and perhaps triggers. Preach will know.

Also, you can use spawnflags on info_intermissions and have different intermissions per skill setting or for dm, so you could even make some kind of ending to your map and emulate games like contra where you get a shit ending unless you do the map on hard :) 

people put more than one info_intermissions in maps! (duh)