Take your time is better - there's always something left that you want to fix, rushing it at the last minute just means you leave in junk you'd normally sort out.

Writing the docs is a good time to take a breather and look at the whole project, rather than a collection of features under a microscope.

</shrug> 

Thanks for the help so far. I sealed the map off with a makeshift skybox and compiled. I got "Too many portals on leaf" with (tyr)vis, so I hacked it and then it compiled.

R_speeds are around 3000 (fastvised) so it seems I should probably seal the areas off more (the sky I have now is just a box over the whole map).

I can close a few windows (no big deal probably) and I can do what Ijed et al. said and "fake" the openness. I probably will have to. I'd prefer a fast map.

Neg!ke, my walls are 256 units high right now IIRC. Without roof stuff. That seems to not be enough to block VIS.

I'll do the invisible skybrush thing.

I don't know if I breached any limits right now, because I run the map in my hacked copy of Tyrquake. ;-) the one that runs Marcher etc. so I wouldn't know. I have a LOT of torches though and there will be corpses. No more than 30 or 40 monsters will be visible at a time.

Louis, I have metal corridors (this is not the grotto map) and doglegging them would be a bit problematic... the outdoor parts are all triangles, yes (compiled fine). I'll close the windows for a start. I'll send you the map soon so you can take a look at it. ;-)

Some more questions arose:

1) How to make a func_train stop at a path_corner and wait to be retriggered? My .def file is rather sparse with comments, I tried spawnflags 4 but it didn't work.

2) My GK door makes the key sound when opening (this is Quoth) but the SK door doesn't. Both are standard two-pane doors and both panes have the relevant key spawnflag set. It's a bit strange.

3) The "angle" key on trigger_once seems to do nothing? No matter what I set it to, the trigger is always activated by touch, regardless of the direction the player moves. Does this even work? I used a value of 180 (due south) but it acted as always...

I checked #terrafusion once but everybody seemed to be away? I'll look into it.

Kell: I'd prefer full documentation, even if it takes longer. 

Sorry but I'm abroad for a little while and as I didn't bring my Quake laptop with me, I can't check things.

Might be worth posting a note on the BspEditor website, he always has answered me quickly.

If not, I'll pick things up when I get home. 

Please find answers to your question embedded below:

1) How to make a func_train stop at a path_corner and wait to be retriggered? My .def file is rather sparse with comments, I tried spawnflags 4 but it didn't work.

It is not possible without any QC hack of the func_train / path_corner. If you add a wait -1 to the path_corner, it will definitively stop the train, and there's no way to restart it... If I remember well it has been already asked in this thread last month... BTW: Kell, will it be a new Quoth2 feature ?

2) My GK door makes the key sound when opening (this is Quoth) but the SK door doesn't. Both are standard two-pane doors and both panes have the relevant key spawnflag set. It's a bit strange.

I never noticed that in Quoth before... effectively this is weird... I'll check that at home this evening, and I'll come back to you to confirm it.. maybe it is a real small bug...

3) The "angle" key on trigger_once seems to do nothing? No matter what I set it to, the trigger is always activated by touch, regardless of the direction the player moves. Does this even work? I used a value of 180 (due south) but it acted as always..

trigger_once angle field is effectively useless (AFAIK). No matter the angle you set, it will react as you mentioned it: I also experimented this behaviour.. so you can remove it, or put whatever value you want: it will work in anyway ;)

I hope it helped a little bit :P 

Fastvis doesn't tell much. If the map is really that small, try a fullvis and see what it's like.

The angle field does have an effect on triggers: it makes then only fire their target when the player touches them looking in the specified direction. It's only useful in very few particular situation but should be avoided in most cases. 

Kell/Preach - That sounds exciting, I have a 'virgin' map you see, the world is about 50% done and I'm kinda hoping to be able to knock a bit of Quoth2 magic into it! So far it has no monsters/weapons or anything except for some machinery, one door and an elevator and a few lights.

I was just curious about the timescale you guys were on, cause I remember you saying at christmas that it was nearly finished. I am by nature horrendously impatient! If it was going to take a long time, I would proceed to fill the map with Quoth1, but if all were left waiting for is a manual then I think I can wait!! :D

Please dont feel rushed by us people (well, me) take your time, please dont release it until you are happy with your creation, as I think everyone will be happier with a finished Quoth2! Patiently looking forwards :-P


Goldenboy - Have you tried AguirRes engine to run your map? I can guarantee that it will run your map! It also will tell you if you are over certain limits when it loads the map. My map 'The SickBase' was, in its released state, well over four of the hard engine limits for Quake1. My last map "The Hand" - I tested it in FitzQuake, but it was tailored to be touching a couple of the engine limits, and AguirRes engine was a real godsend!

I would also recommend his Vis too, as it saved my ass a couple of times, and frankly, now, I wouldnt use anything else!

Could you perhaps post a screenshot of your map? From an angle where you can see the upper section of most of the map? The idea of putting a massive skybrush over the entire level sounds like something I would have done when I started out, but nowadays I think I would spend a little time adding smaller sky brushes, to waste as little space as possible. This could save on speeds/vis times.

It would be easier to see what your facing if you showed a screenshot, perhaps noclipped out of the map, with gl_clear 1 on the console.

That is unless you are sworn to secrecy! 

"It is not possible without any QC hack of the func_train / path_corner. If you add a wait -1 to the path_corner, it will definitively stop the train, and there's no way to restart it... If I remember well it has been already asked in this thread last month... BTW: Kell, will it be a new Quoth2 feature ? "

This is true. It's not possible, AFAIK. I wrote some QuakeC that gives me a custom "func_mover" class that WILL do it but it's not part of any mods I know of.

However, if Preach would like to include it in Quoth2 he could send me an email. The code is real simple. :) 

Which new features are in exactly? I'm not interested in new overpowered monsters, but rather some new triggers/funcs and additions to existing ones. Those are the things that make a pack like Quoth useful. 

Are in Quoth1 

From the description it sounds like the windows are the problem. Just put a brush inside that's a window pane ie. glass texture, which should solve everything, although it'll change the look a fair bit as well since almost all window textures are bright + colourfull. 

I solved the train issue, Quoth seems to already have this indeed. You just set the path_corner to "wait -1" and check spawnflags 2 (apparently TOGGLE, just x in my case) on the train. Thanks Quoth guys.

The angle on the triggers definitely didn't work. I'll use something else.

Ijed, I'll just close the windows because I learned that monsters got activated when I didn't want them to, and this kinda sealed it for me. Problem--

Huge skybox: This was just so I could compile it for playtesting, I'll probably seal off the areas from each other now.

Will try a fullvis today.

AguirRe's tools & engine: Windows only, which is why I hacked Tyrann's already liberal ones. I have a stock Proquake 350 for testing the limits though. :-) atm I'm more concerned about roughly finishing it, then I'll take to the limits stuff.

Key sound issue still unresolved.

New question: I have a powerup (cross) on a func_train, which is supposed to raise the item out of the water/lava when triggered. This works with monsters, but not with the cross? The train rises when triggered, but the cross sitting on it doesn't. Does this just not work with items?

Screenie forthcoming. 

I considered doing that, was a bit leery since I have been hasseling him with noobie questions already. I figured I would ask here & do some forum dredging to see if its been covered before in the past since I have a couple days off. I suppose its not a huge issue really, more of a nagging question.

Thanks, Fatty 

the directional trigger - on the "teaching old progs.dat new tricks" thread, wasnt there a way of 'activating' trigger with another trigger, so it wont fire until another trigger triggers it? It wouldnt be directional, but I think maybe you could use it... 

About your 2nd question (i.e key sound when opening SK/GK), I checked it and it generates no sounds, except door opening sound... I'm in worldtype 2 (base)... and maybe it doesn't work at all here.... though... 

Triggers with angle do work the way I said. Try different angles or touching them while moving backwards and you'll see.

Is the powerup suspended or does it drop to the floor? It has to be placed above the spot the func_train will apprear in-game (first path_corner) and it should work. If it doesn't rise with the platform, try placing it higher above. 

note: angle 0 won't work for this, use 360 instead (quakec treats a "0" value in a map the same as the value not being set at all.) 

direction dependent triggers: just tried this for both trigger_once and trigger_multiple:
"target" "silver"
"angle" "270"
works fine.
I suspect this: regardless of the direction the player moves is the misunderstanding. The angle specifies that the trigger only fire when its value matches the player's direction of facing, not their direction of movement.


key sounds: it would hep if you told us what key type you're using. If it's the quoth 'elder keys' then neither gold nor silver makes the key sound along with the door sound when used. I guess this was a deliberate decision to prevent the much more intrusive key sound from drowning out the door sound, though I can't honestly remember.
I tried out the other keys in appropriate maps and got the correct sound with all of them.


falling cross: I think this is a quoth1 error, caused by changes to the func_train that has them spawned in a map after items, instead of before as in id1 progs. I think. 

also, what metl said about 0/360 :P 

All right, thanks for helping.

Key sounds: Worldtype 1. Hm, if it works for you Kell, then it's probably my fault. JPL: Were you using Quoth? If so, I'm certain it should play key sounds when opening base keydoors. It does in one of my maps. Standard Id1 does _not_ play those sounds although they're in the pak files.

Angle triggers: Same. Anyway I changed all of them to info_notnulls so they, in turn, wait for another trigger. Works even better for me. (What Ricky said.) I knew about the 0/360 thing, but I couldn't get 180 to work either. Whatever...

Falling cross: I'll have to find another way then. Hordespawn can spawn items, right? That might work.

gb 

oh umm, JPL, I think Quoth1 doesn't have the key sound thing. :-P sorry, mess-up on my part. 

It's not a good idea to use hordespawn for items in quoth1, as it will probably break your monster count on the map. This is fixed in quoth2. 

I indeed tested your issue with Quoth1 ... I didn't understood you weer beta testing Quoth2 :P

And I'm also waiting patiently for Quoth2 release, as there's no hurry on my side as my project is half completed regarding brush count... 

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/5562/aliens/hicks1.wav 

That just makes me wanna do aliens Quake levels again. Make sum, I mean! Played Rubicon last night for the first time. I thought it was quite 'Alienesque'. I suppose my current map is a bit alien style. I'd like to think so. Theres something about creeping around dark techy corridors, exploring at the same time as looking out for nasty beasties! Hehe - new map will have SSG, SNG, PG and GL. They all fit that sort of style!

S00ry - I diverge.... 

Good to know. That'll do then.