When you die from a black knight for the first time, you will remember what they look like and be wary of them next time

Haha, yeah I found that black knight in Undead Burg:

"Oh, this guy looks a bit different to the usual zombi-OH I'M DEAD AGAIN"

Why not include skill settings?

Hah, well there was a story a while back where the "director" of the game was quoted as saying "I am thinking about whether I should prepare another difficulty that everyone can complete".

But then after those comments, the hardcore fanbase went apeshit, moaning that the existence of an easier mode would ruin the artistic integrity of the game or something, and the director guy ended up backtracking over his comments, claiming it was a "mistranslation" or some bollocks.

http://metro.co.uk/2012/09/05/miyazaki-backtracks-over-dark-souls-difficultly-level-566203/ 

Why not include skill settings?
There is, they are called NG+

If you thought the game was difficult first time through, try 2nd or 3rd time. Bosses do different move combos, everything does more damage and you have to collect more powerful items to survive.

In all seriousness skill levels is a thing of the 90's and most developer hate them because they are something that has to be rushed in at the end (crush time+ anyone) and often difficult to balance because enemies are tweaked up till the game is shipped. 

The developers were also quoted as saying Dark Souls 2 would be "more understandable" and "more accessible" than Dark Souls, but again after a huge fan backlash they backtracked and apologised, assuring them that it would be just as hard as before. 

There is, they are called NG+

That's not really the same thing though - that just means the game gets harder each time you complete it. We're talking about "skill settings" in the old traditional sense. 

I was being sarcastic! Oh well ... :P 

Suck when it's just buff/debuff on enemies.

How Quake does it works pretty well IMO. 

I was just pointing out that "NG+" meant the thing you went on to describe. 

"But then after those comments, the hardcore fanbase went apeshit, moaning that the existence of an easier mode would ruin the artistic integrity of the game or something"

I'm not quite sure how much of a spectacular fucking bellend you have to be to somehow contrive to have your own gaming experience """ruined""" by the existence of an easier skill setting that you aren't using, but I suspect that level of extreme retardation is right up there with COD fanboiz.

Ignoring such idiocy, I've heard very good things about the design in the game, so surely from a dev's perspective (and anyone with a functioning brain) it would make a lot of sense to put the effort into incorporating some skill settings so normal players would buy and be able to enjoy it, rather than the smug elite of masochistic boredom freaks*??


(* Not saying that sock, czg, etc are those, unless of course they whined to the devs too, in which case, they are) 

 

I can see where DS is coming from with regards to difficulty, it is a game designed by a different culture. When I went to Tokyo it felt like I was on another planet and the same could be said of DS, its designed for a certain audience and it is not the west. Sure people from the west have played it but the real player base is in Japan and that is how they love their games. Crazy hard difficulties, grinding to get to the right level for area/boss fights and obscure storylines.

Personally I would have never touched the game, I do like games to be accessible and not punishing but I was convinced by a friend at work and it became something to laugh about over coffee breaks. (various ways to die in game) The game is getting easier for sure, DS is easier than Demons Souls and I suspect DS2 will be easier again.

@Shambler, I never write to developers or sign stupid online petitions for games. Having been a developer I respect the way a game is designed and if I don't like something I just don't play it! 

Is literally my favourite game of the last decade. It's the only game (other than fez) that I have 100% of the achievements on my 360.

I think some of the boss fights could have been adjusted to be easier (4 kings and O&S can be frustratingly tough). But personally I like the idea of a game whose difficulty is a barrier for achievement farmers and videogame tourists.

Regarding looking online for hints, there is a large community that has surrounded the game because of the games difficulty. I would never have followed players like EpicNameBro or RedRosie if the game was easy. This is uniquely dark souls and I love it. 

All I can say is I hope there's some good trainers for it. Sounds like god mode will be advisable. 

" But personally I like the idea of a game whose difficulty is a barrier for achievement farmers and videogame tourists."

....what difference does that make to your personal enjoyment of you playing the game?? 

It's kind of tricky, Demon Souls does get attention because of it's difficulty, it's what people talk about, it creates stories to share with friends etc. That wouldn't necessarily exist if there was an easy mode that many people would default to after having died 2 or 3 times on normal.
I almost wonder if it would be as popular (even financially) without the difficulty to set it apart from all the other games (of course, the difficulty isn't the only thing it has going for it, many other aspects of the game are quite brilliant, but still).

I do agree that I'd like there to be an easier mode. As much as I love the game, I stopped playing it after a while cause it was taking too much time/deaths, and reading guides and watching youtube vids to figure out how to play a game doesn't really interest me.

Still, great game (from what I've played of it anyways). 

....what difference does that make to your personal enjoyment of you playing the game??

"Because we don't want to let muggles into our elite community" 

So, anyway this raises an interesting point, which is that the concept of "you have to learn from the community in order to be able to play this game", seems to have been built in to the design of the game to a certain extent:

The game is littered with user-written graffiti which is supposed to allow players to warn each other of things and share tips, but I only ever seem to comes across useless messages like "yay, I made it!" or "I can't take this any more", or malicious messages like "jump down here", which of course sends you plummeting to your death. It's a very interesting feature, but I'd question whether in practice it is actually effective at fulfilling what it was intended to do.

Ultimately, is a game - that shuts out people who don't want to spend half their time reading strategy guides on the internet - something that really deserves the praise it is getting? 

If DS was not difficult then it would have died a long time ago. The high skill level is part of the game, adding an easy mode would kill it. Some people like stuff that is a challenge, this is not some elitist view either.

A friend of mine use to do downhill mountain bike racing, it was nuts. Racing down through woods at high speed, one mistake and it could be fatal. I certainly did not call him an elitist because he rode a bike different to me. Sure you will get people bragging and boasting about how they completed DS but that is part of the draw of the game.

User messages are certainly an interesting idea but most people are jerks when it comes to being helpful in DS and you are better off ignoring them. The idea of people wanting to help others is a noble ideal but I have never found any sign useful.

There are signs put down by the developer and in Demon's Soul's you can vote on the signs which are helpful so they stand out from the background noise. I think you are limited to 5 per game or something like that, otherwise people would spam the world with pointless graffiti.

Probably the most useful thing in Demon's Soul's was seeing the ghosts of other players dying. You could find pools of blood lying around that if you touched them showed how someone died recently. It was really spooky seeing ghosts of players running past you, it felt like all of the player worlds were fractured and bleeding into each other. 

Ultimately, is a game - that shuts out people who don't want to spend half their time reading strategy guides on the internet - something that really deserves the praise it is getting?

DS gets attention because it is different, people wanting the game to be like everything else because they find it too hard is selfish. I found super meat boy really hard and frustrating but I certainly don't want it to change because I want an easy mode. Part of the fun of DS is the community involvement with video and wiki information, it feels cool to research strategies and find information about hidden items. Sure there are people who don't have the time to play DS but there are plenty of other games to try. 

People wanting the game to be too hard because they don't want it to be like everything else is selfish.

> If DS was not difficult then it would have died a long time ago. The high skill level is part of the game, adding an easy mode would kill it.

DS could still BE difficult. But also have an easy option because the difficulty is only part of it... As Le Bal says "many other aspects of the game are quite brilliant".

I do agree with Bal's and your point about the difficulty maintaining interest and longetivity of the game and community. But if the normal uber-difficulty was very clearly highlighted as the real, genuine, true, authentic way to play DS, and there were also skill settings as "tourist" options, that sense of community over the default game could still exist. 

"A friend of mine use to do downhill mountain bike racing, it was nuts. Racing down through woods at high speed, one mistake and it could be fatal. I certainly did not call him an elitist because he rode a bike different to me."

But you could ride a different bike. And if the game is the bike that doesnt make any sense.

Anyway, havent played the game but this discussion does make me want to check it out. 

I play it. 

I don't want to go into it too much, but I pretty much agree with EpicNameBro with his reasoning -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDI1oHutLe0

I think some games suffer for catering to different skill levels. Dark Souls would definitely not be as good if it was easy, completing the game (or even getting past a boss or area) yields a huge sense of achievement. It would be very forgettable if it was scalable in the same way as Skyrim, for example.

I have no problem with easy games, not in the least, but Dark Souls had a very tight design goal and it definitely delivered an unforgettable experience (for better or worse depending on your experience).

Just FYI, I don't feel like I am a great player at all. But completing such a tough game (because it only has one difficulty) fills me with joy. I don't feel ashamed to say that it's not for everyone, if that makes me an elitist then so be it. 

Gave up on Dark Souls, and am now playing Demon's Souls instead. 4 hours in and so far (at least) it seems to be much more accessible and more fun than Dark Souls was. I always seem to be making progress and I don't keep dying all the time. Also, I friggin love the hub in Demon's; it means I'm not stuck in the same place all the time.

Moral of the story: learning curves are good things to put in games, yo. 

Go to undead burg first...

It's not entirely obvious where the easiest path is, it's bit of a dick-move it seems but once you are very confident with the game then you can visit harder areas before hitting the intended "start area".

For instance I got butt kicked by the graveyard skellys, and I didn't even get far into the catacombs. But now I usually hit drakes valley before undead burg to collect some nice early goodies, and if I'm feeling fruity I will try the catacombs or blight-town before doing the gargoyle fight.

I found Demon's Souls to be harder than Dark Souls, but I agree that it feels like you're achieving more due to the nature of the hub. 

TL; DW.

> completing the game (or even getting past a boss or area) yields a huge sense of achievement.

Which it would if it was on the default "horrendous" skill, even if other skills were available.

> But completing such a tough game (because it only has one difficulty) fills me with joy.

Ditto. How would the availability of other skills reduce that achievement?

> It would be very forgettable if it was scalable in the same way as Skyrim, for example.

Again, how??

None of this explains how the availability of other skills would change the experience you had on the default skill. And if that bloke did it in 40 minutes of blah, please summarise. Comparably, I play all Quake maps on Hard skill, and often get satisfaction from playing them well and getting through them first time. The fact that Easy and Normal skills exist does not change that enjoyment whatsoever.

Talking of which, less attempts to justify DS, and more maps, please :D