Replaying Within A Deep Forest, such a cute and well-designed game. 

But it felt like it was missing something to give it more depth.

Not sure what. 

After deliberating for an eternity over whether I should start with Dark Souls or Demon's Souls, I eventually settled on the fairly arbitrary choice of Dark Souls.

I've only really started playing it I guess, so all I've seen is the game up to the Taurus Demon in Undead Burg. (I haven't killed him yet).

Too early for me to have much of an opinion of the game yet, but holy shit the levels are awesomely built.

Gameplay wise, just to put things into perspective, the only way I managed to beat the boss in the fucking tutorial level, was to consult an online strategy guide which suggested that I should remove all of my armour and fight the boss naked, which will allow me to move around at a half-decent pace so that I could actually dodge his attacks and get into a position to launch my own.

Years of playing the usual knife-through-butter tripe has not prepared me psychologically for this game :(

I really, really, don't want to have to cheese my way through this game by wiki'ing every little thing - has anyone here played through it normally, you know, just by themselves? 

*raises hand*
I played DS when it first came out and there was no wiki! I imagine you have patched it which makes even easier! :P 

I played until the next boss after Taurus Demon before I gave up. Fighting the standard enemies was quite fun but the bosses had me raging at my screen. Fuck that I play games to have fun :)

I agree though about the level design and visuals, Undead Burg was a beautiful location, the scale is fucking epic. 

Just use a guide and a wiki and look at youtubes and don't worry about spoiling yourself, because it's hard enough even WITH those. 

I played DS when it first came out and there was no wiki! I imagine you have patched it which makes even easier! :P

So, if the game was originally an 11/10 on the "fuckshitpissarsebollocks, this is colon-crucifyingly hard" scale, would you say it is about a 10.9/10 after the patch? :P

Fuck that I play games to have fun :)

Yeah, before I played this game, I sort of meditated for a bit and tried to promise myself that no matter how retardedly hard it gets, I will remain calm. In other words, I went in to this game basically saying to myself "I am going to die horribly over and over again, and that's ok". It kind of works - dying doesn't surprise me or bother me anymore. I'm yet to find "the fun" in this game, I think, but at least I am currently at peace with how much I suck at this, which is half the battle I guess. Also, not sure if it's related but irl, I've started developing this strange urge to buy a latex catsuit and ballgag/nipple clamps...

Just use a guide and a wiki and look at youtubes and don't worry about spoiling yourself, because it's hard enough even WITH those.

Ok, this makes me feel slightly better. And also slightly more worried. And a little bit hornier. 

So, if the game was originally an 11/10 on the "fuckshitpissarsebollocks, this is colon-crucifyingly hard" scale, would you say it is about a 10.9/10 after the patch? :P

When the game first came out it was rushed, there was lots of things broken which made it unnecessarily difficult. For a start the vendors were extremely limited in what they could sell, you had to travel to the right vendor to buy stuff which got annoying because of travel distance. The game is still tough but the rough edges have been smoothed out!

The boss fights are designed to be something that you learn by trial and error and lots of death. It certainly not an ideal way to learn something in game but this is very much the design mentality of the game, "bash head against brick wall until it cracks". You can get help from various NPCs (new thing for DS) or other players and I highly recommend it.

The first boss fight in the game is designed to teach the player one vital strategy, the jump down attack. It certainly could have been setup better but it is something that is useful later on.

DS is certainly not a game for everyone and to be honest, it should not be changed for the masses who like things easier/fun. It is designed to be hard so players can have fun with the extra challenge. When you die from a black knight for the first time, you will remember what they look like and be wary of them next time, encounters in DS are memorable.

If you are looking to walk through the game on rails (aka COD style) then this is certainly not the game to play. 

Get Solaire to help you when you get to the Parish. You'll know where. 

Why not include skill settings? 

The game ultimately gets easier because you improve as a player, figuring out the systems, weapons, enemies etc.

People are finishing this game without leveling up once, or speedrunning it in under an hour without using glitches.

DS2 will be interesting when it comes out, no Wikis for a ( short ) while ;) 

 

When you die from a black knight for the first time, you will remember what they look like and be wary of them next time

Haha, yeah I found that black knight in Undead Burg:

"Oh, this guy looks a bit different to the usual zombi-OH I'M DEAD AGAIN"

Why not include skill settings?

Hah, well there was a story a while back where the "director" of the game was quoted as saying "I am thinking about whether I should prepare another difficulty that everyone can complete".

But then after those comments, the hardcore fanbase went apeshit, moaning that the existence of an easier mode would ruin the artistic integrity of the game or something, and the director guy ended up backtracking over his comments, claiming it was a "mistranslation" or some bollocks.

http://metro.co.uk/2012/09/05/miyazaki-backtracks-over-dark-souls-difficultly-level-566203/ 

Why not include skill settings?
There is, they are called NG+

If you thought the game was difficult first time through, try 2nd or 3rd time. Bosses do different move combos, everything does more damage and you have to collect more powerful items to survive.

In all seriousness skill levels is a thing of the 90's and most developer hate them because they are something that has to be rushed in at the end (crush time+ anyone) and often difficult to balance because enemies are tweaked up till the game is shipped. 

The developers were also quoted as saying Dark Souls 2 would be "more understandable" and "more accessible" than Dark Souls, but again after a huge fan backlash they backtracked and apologised, assuring them that it would be just as hard as before. 

There is, they are called NG+

That's not really the same thing though - that just means the game gets harder each time you complete it. We're talking about "skill settings" in the old traditional sense. 

I was being sarcastic! Oh well ... :P 

Suck when it's just buff/debuff on enemies.

How Quake does it works pretty well IMO. 

I was just pointing out that "NG+" meant the thing you went on to describe. 

"But then after those comments, the hardcore fanbase went apeshit, moaning that the existence of an easier mode would ruin the artistic integrity of the game or something"

I'm not quite sure how much of a spectacular fucking bellend you have to be to somehow contrive to have your own gaming experience """ruined""" by the existence of an easier skill setting that you aren't using, but I suspect that level of extreme retardation is right up there with COD fanboiz.

Ignoring such idiocy, I've heard very good things about the design in the game, so surely from a dev's perspective (and anyone with a functioning brain) it would make a lot of sense to put the effort into incorporating some skill settings so normal players would buy and be able to enjoy it, rather than the smug elite of masochistic boredom freaks*??


(* Not saying that sock, czg, etc are those, unless of course they whined to the devs too, in which case, they are) 

 

I can see where DS is coming from with regards to difficulty, it is a game designed by a different culture. When I went to Tokyo it felt like I was on another planet and the same could be said of DS, its designed for a certain audience and it is not the west. Sure people from the west have played it but the real player base is in Japan and that is how they love their games. Crazy hard difficulties, grinding to get to the right level for area/boss fights and obscure storylines.

Personally I would have never touched the game, I do like games to be accessible and not punishing but I was convinced by a friend at work and it became something to laugh about over coffee breaks. (various ways to die in game) The game is getting easier for sure, DS is easier than Demons Souls and I suspect DS2 will be easier again.

@Shambler, I never write to developers or sign stupid online petitions for games. Having been a developer I respect the way a game is designed and if I don't like something I just don't play it! 

Is literally my favourite game of the last decade. It's the only game (other than fez) that I have 100% of the achievements on my 360.

I think some of the boss fights could have been adjusted to be easier (4 kings and O&S can be frustratingly tough). But personally I like the idea of a game whose difficulty is a barrier for achievement farmers and videogame tourists.

Regarding looking online for hints, there is a large community that has surrounded the game because of the games difficulty. I would never have followed players like EpicNameBro or RedRosie if the game was easy. This is uniquely dark souls and I love it. 

All I can say is I hope there's some good trainers for it. Sounds like god mode will be advisable. 

" But personally I like the idea of a game whose difficulty is a barrier for achievement farmers and videogame tourists."

....what difference does that make to your personal enjoyment of you playing the game??