that is one hell of a nasty problem if you don't know what the cause is or how to fix it. Still, you know now, eh? :)

The absolute WORST problem you can get in worldcraft, however, is when you use the clipper on a multiple brush (or single brush if you are silly) selection and accidentally clip along one of the faces of a brush. This creates an infinitely thin brush which will crash compilers and is a fucker to track down if you have added a lot of other stuff since creating the problem. If you know it can be caused by the clipper, at least you know roughly where the problem might be and in which brushes it is in. 

In WC is using the carver - this evil tool tends to destroy everything it touches. There's no way to delete it from the toolbar which is a shame. Another problem is clipping across multiple brushes that aren't touching (such as when using the czg curve maker method). It'll crash maybe 15% of the time, so always save before doing this.

Never really used the pgup pgdn controls, they didn't seem to follow the order of creation for cameras and in a big map it's pretty creaky switching all over the place to find the one you want. I'll give that a try again, though. 

I beg to differ. I will agree that carving can sometimes cause a mess of brushes. But, if you know how to carve carefully, you can avoid most problems. Almost all of the complex brushes in my maps were made by carving. Why? Because I know what carving likes, and does not like.

And in my opinion, carving is much much quicker than manually adjusting the surrounding brushes, which is usually a pain.
As long as you carve carefully, you should never have any problems. I use it constantly, and do not plan to stop. 

The more you save, the less it crashes. I don't know why this is, but I tend to save very frequently (at least every 5 mins) and it almost never crashes.

Using the clipper can sometimes cause a crash, but if I take it slowly and save between clips when using the tool several times, I don't seem to have any problems.

The only time WC really ALWAYS crashes is when I've been using it for several hours, done a lot of work and then exit. It always crashes when it's closing after a long day of mapping, but otherwise WC crashes are incredibly rare for me these days. Maybe it's my pc, or maybe I'm just naturally avoiding the things likely to make it crash. Hmm. 

That it likes to crash at certain times, so I ended up saving before doing anything I know is risky. I also save compulsively and rarely get crashes.

The one you mention, than, seems to be the compiler crash. It always happens with a bigger than small map build or two. It's not a problem since it's shutting down anyhow, but annoying when it doesn't remember last map worked on on reopen.

Orl - I thought you used QuArK? 

Why did you think I used Quark?

Ever since day one of mapping, I have always used Worldcraft 1.1a. And sometimes 1.6.

And 1.1a can crash much more frequently than 1.6, if your not careful. 

;)

Always use 1.6a, tried the 3.3 conversion but it needs some stuff ironed out - the wad limitations mainly. 

I have my reasons for using 1.1a than 1.6.

And yes, I did try the 3.3 conversion, and after a minute I immediately lost my mapping erection. 

Also, an implant can help with the other problem. 

... certainly not related to hardware. I'm up to date with all that :) But here are my reasons why I prefer 1.1a to 1.6

1. Zooming. In 1.1a the zoom value is about .06 for each zoom in, whereas in 1.6 the zoom value is .50 and this frustrates me, because either its too close, or its to far away. At least in 1.1a, there are much more zooming values and I can map comfortably.

2. Slowness. 1.6's 3d view runs much slower compared to 1.1a. Even if it's the same exact map, 1.6 renders it much more slowly than 1.1a, thus making texture alignments a real pain in the ass, and I'm forced to use visgroups, which you don't need in 1.1a because it never slows down. And another weird thing. The wireframe 3d mode in 1.6 renders MUCH slower than textured or solid mode. But in 1.1a, Wireframe mode renders much faster than textured or solid. Whats up with that?

3. Selection handles. I hate these things. They not only distract me from the actual brushes themselves, but they sometimes get in the way of other items, normally entities. Thank god 1.1a doesn't have them.

I may have a few smaller gripes about 1.6, but these are the real main issues. However, I do have positive things to say about 1.6

1. No file size limit. 1.1a has a .map file size limit of about 1800kb. 1.6, as far has I know, has no limit.

2. Better shearing manipulation than 1.1a.

Thats about it really. All those extra features in 1.6 I do not use. Anything 1.6 can do, 1.1a can do as well, to a degree. And there you have it. 

I had no luck fixing the leak myself, so i sent it off to AguirRe. He said that he really couldn't do much, as it seem that my curves were not exactly snapped to the vertices, so it was causing the compiler all sorts of headaches. So i thought that perhaps if i scaled up the size of the pipe, that would make it large enough to have all of the vertices lie on the grid. I rebuilt, and tested, and was met with failure. Several times, to the point of my girlfriend imploring me to stop working on it.

(I didn't)

Well, since this wasn't working, i rebuilt the pipe example in CZG's tutorial, which obviously compiled without incident. I compared this to my failed ventures, to see what was different. I'm pretty sure i've isolated the issue.

In order for curved pipes to compile properly, it would appear that:

The diameter of the outer region of the pipe must be equal to the radius on the inner section of the pipe.

On the pipes i was trying to make, the above ration was not used, leading to a leak every single time.

I'm guessing that if the ratio stays the same, it betters the scalibility of the pipe, so when it's stretched in strange and unusual fashion, it causes for vertices to be formed off-grid. Or something.

Does this sound cogent? 

You have to think in base 2 (8 for doing the stretching). Basicly everything in games works on power of two and is sqaure. The textures in Quake that are rectangular slow down the engine because it basicly converts them to square before drawing.

The wedge used for the pipe bending is 2x4 to the grid, which means all subsequent structures are based off that ratio, if it's different or off-grid then it won't work, like you say, lots of holes and warped shapes.

Hopefully that makes sense, but usually you just have to sit there in editor and mess with it until it clicks. 

The textures in Quake that are rectangular slow down the engine because it basicly converts them to square before drawing.

Okay, this isn't really true. Video cards (except some of the newest ones) can only handle texture dimensions that are powers of two, but they don't have to be square -- a 64x128 texture is just fine, for example.

Second, non-power-of-two textures don't slow the engine down except perhaps for a few nanoseconds at load time when the engine resamples them to a power-of-two so that the video card will accept it. But there is no performance hit during play. 

Although I did mean power of 2 textures that are rectangular.

The problem with non power of 2 on modern cards is that a default colour is generally inserted to fill in the space and make them power of 2. Which can cause some strange visual effects, like a load of black lines marching down a wall or pixellated artefacts on eg. a fontsheet. 

is that really true? I would think that sort of artifact would result from bad resampling done by the application.

I assumed that the cards that truly support it (using ARB_texture_non_power_of_two in OpenGL for example) would support it seamlessly and without artifacts -- otherwise, what's the point?

However, I have not personally seen it in action. 

A fontsheet is typically 1024x2 and we spent nearly a week trying to sort one out, convinced it was an art problem but unable to find it. Turned out nobody thought to check the dimensions. Random letters had a one pixel almost invisible line along one edge, but depending on the tv / where the text was on the screen it could be invisible.

We weren't building for PC but it's the same kettle of fish. Turned out the image template was saved in 1023x1024, thanks to some option of the fontsheet exporter. These are the basic kind of things that are overlooked for platforms, like full .png support etc. 

what platform? are you sure the hardware really supported it and there wasn't some code in the API that silently resampled it at load time?

I confess to know basically nothing about console development, except that PS2 devkits are really noisy. 

;) 

One beastie I'm working with at the moment has a bounding box as big as the doggie but a model that is quite low to the ground. The player can actually jump over the thing. So, does collision detection work differently model:model and model:world? 

...I'm using fitz80 (with a custom progs) and when I'm in -developer 1 and have the SNG, if I shoot a brush object I get a message telling me what it is (worldspawn, func_wall etc.). Is this a feature of fitz80 I've never noticed or the result of ineraction with the progs? 

The bounding box of the model is only used for the engine to determine when it needs to render it. But the hitbox set by the QC with setsize() is used for collsion between player and monster, for instance. So if the height is set low enough you can indeed jump on them.

And that SNG message was a dev thing I put in to try and fix a bug, it'll be removed in the next version. 

Hi,

Having some problems getting a lwo to convert into a map or bsp? Any recommended tools or utils? A lot have disappeared over the years, anyone got any on a dusty harddrive. Many thanks.

iain.price@hotmail.co.uk 

...you are the bomb, as usual.

I definitely won't be binning that progs version :). It's annoying when one is "playing" in developer mode, but might be extremely useful when one is debugging a level. 

...I'm using fitz80 (with a custom progs) and when I'm in -developer 1 and have the SNG, if I shoot a brush object I get a message telling me what it is (worldspawn, func_wall etc.). Is this a feature of fitz80 I've never noticed or the result of ineraction with the progs?

huh... must be the progs :) 

Checking your post to make sure it isn't broken? Or ever returning to the thread?

That stuff's tough...