is to have the Quake Guy chew gum and quip.

After each significant kill, a chase cam pops up and Quake Guy smiles into the camera and says something like,

"I only have one body bag left. I guess you'll have to share."

or

"I came here to chew gum and take names, and I'm all out of gum. So, I guess you will have to share"

Remove the red face, Kinn or the ideas will get worse. 

try me. 

do we really want to see how low on the casual gamer scale we can go? There could be junior execs trolling obscure forums like this just looking for something, Anything!, to appease the masses. 

I'm going to post in this very idea-rich forum to try and head off what seems to be a gathering flamewar by calling HeadThump a retard. 

HeadThump was just kidding. Anyway, I think he's made a valid point by highlighting the obvious dumbing down that a commercially produced remake of Quake 1 would no doubt suffer from. 

this is quake ffs. how much more dumbed down can it get?

you enter map, pick up guns and kill things, then leave.

maybe there won't be guns, or monsters to kill,... or maybe we won't be able to leave the maps! O_o 

I know you are just venting due to recent events.

PS. I only wear the helmet 'cause me skull is mushy. 

So the impression I get from all this is we definitely want something we've already seen before with some cool shaders slapped on because totally new concepts scare us.

Am I the only one who appreciates how dissimilar Quake 1, 2 and 3 are? Yes, yes I am. 

By "dumbing down" I mean adding all sorts of immersion-killing mainstream action game shite like heavy metal soundtracks, "bullet time", and cutscenes. 

do you reckon it could be pulled off in the Doom3 engine without looking too plasticy? It does seem like the natural successor to the Q1 engine, as Q1 was heavily about shadows and lighting, after all. 

pardon, but Doom3 was (IMHO) crap. id (software) REALLY seems to have a problem with the idea of OUTDOOR AREAS. I have always thought the coolest thing ever would be The Ultimate Doom's Mount Erebus level rendered right - that is, with a detail level of Doom 3 or surpassing it, in a level that huge, all outdoors. That or one of Doom2's huger hell-infested city levels. Why can't they comprehend that it would simply be cooler to see hell on a Far Cry-type scale, and that the universe is alas, not a primarily indoor place. I think you could still do Quake-style atmosphere (like what CZG said about episode 3), provided you designed the structures to be enigmatic enough. To be a pretentious bastard, think about Piranesi's artwork. That on a grander scale is kind of how I interpret what CZG was saying. Finding your way through a nightmare world would be so much more entertaining if there was some skill or exploration involved in navigating it.

I was really dissapointed in Doom3. Is it just me, or do the original QUAKE ONE levels have better layouts? 

i fully agree with czg's uberpost btw 

I was talking about the whole light and shadows thing, not Doom3's gameplay (which I haven't played yet, btw). 

in his pre-recorded quakecon 2004 speech. Basically it's a problem with the specular light - even if you can vary the strength of it through specular maps all specular highlights are handled as if the material was some kind of dull plastic. 

cybear, indeed. The size of a specular highlight can be small and tight (on a glossy surface like a sheet of steel or glass, or a marble floor) or broad and fuzzy (on a rougher surface like plastic). Doom3 just uses one curve for all specular falloff to cheapen the math, and it happens to be a broad fuzzy one.

I think it was meant to be the most universal medium between different surfaces like flesh and metal, "close enough" to all of them that you could pass them off as anything with the right textures/application. The mancubus would look really wierd with little shiny bald-head light spots scrolling over him :)

A good texture map and specular map combo can easily override how the size of the specular makes the surface 'look'. I've found griminess helps in that regard a great deal, to disguise the breadth of the highlight and make the surface believably less polished. Fortunately, Quake has dirt in spades. 

what about all the brown in quake? i believe this to create a strong sense of continuous style in the vein of technogoth. but i'm wondering whether the same style and atmosphere can be acheieved without having to use that repetitive colour scheme. maybe a sort of dust/fog effect would be a modern incarnation of the style id's artists were trying to emulate. 

So the impression I get from all this is we definitely want something we've already seen before with some cool shaders slapped on because totally new concepts scare us.

The impression I get is that we're all nostalgic for a great game that has never been equaled. The fact that the atmosphere and theme are dark and morbid is just an added bonus, and those are elements we've tried to create before and since Quake.

And the fear we have is that too often "something new" is just plain silly in the context of the original (or in any context, really), e.g. the movie AvP compared with Alien or Aliens. However, Rockstar did seem to get it right when they changed stuff between GTA1/2 and GTA3. 

Bleh. I think Quake needs new weapons. At least visually. I wouldn't mind having new toys to play with, and there's plenty of opportunity for cool weapons. I'm not saying Quake's weapons need to be replaced, but I'm a bit tired of the same thing all the time. Variety is good (generally.) 

The programmer Maj. Bitch designed one for Quake2 that is beyond cool. You shoot it at your opponent, it wraps around his neck and then releases a grappling hook into the cieling above, pulls the hapless victim up and then jerks the rope until the guy is dead.

Such a thing done in Quake as a hand held daemonic organism would be quite fun. 

Have no place in Quake. 

Wich engine would be used, Doom3, its evolved version i.e. Q4... or a new engine developed for the community, this option is the most difficult but is a possibility. 

I meant "...a new engine developed BY the community...". 

gattling bolt thrower...
the impact it would have on ragdolls would be so satisfying being able to pin em up ala painkiller only w/ smaller bolts 

toss it out; maybe a Half-Life mod to replace that cute little snark with something that has a lizard skull's head, shiny glowing red eyes, hisses at you and the occasional worm drops out of it. 

nice thread.

"czg's uberpost"(TM) [#24] is awesome and covers nearly everything; lots of other good points also.

further points:
[1]Tronyn [#45], basically i agree. And isnt Insomina the ultimate example [so far!] of the perfect blend of indoor areas/outdoor areas "grander scale" Q1SP map design?
[2]RPG [#51] The impression I get is that we're all nostalgic for a great game that has never been equaled. Agreed.

And all i say is:
[a]weapons same.
[b]monsters same, lose worst monsters, add 2/3 bigger, more complex, new ones to complement vore/shambler.
[c]maps/episodes basically same structure.
[d]also must keep the SPEED of quake 1 gameplay, just make the graphics a lot lot better. =)