is used by the server to build a list that represents the initial dynamic state of the map and this buffer is then meant to be sent to the client.

If the map contains too much dynamic stuff (e.g. monsters), then this buffer can't hold the entire list and the server aborts. The original buffer size was 8000 bytes, but due to a bug it can only handle 7998. I've increased that to 64k along with many other similar buffers.

As you've already noticed, delay spawned monsters usually help to cut down on the list size. This method is used extensively in e.g. Marcher or the recent JPL maps that utilize my variant of the old Zer trigger_spawn monster code. By spawning in monsters as the player is going physically through the map, the total dynamic load on the server is greatly reduced. Delayed spawning helps in the beginning and middle of a map and corpse removal helps in the middle and end.

There's currently no way in my engines to see the buffer requirements if it's lower than the old limit. Beware that some combinations of dynamic stuff (e.g. moving brushes) may cause overflow also during play or when reloading a saved game, even if seems OK at startup. My typical example is Menkalinan on Hard skill; try loading it with Fitz repeatedly and you'll see that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

Thanks for that, I feel a lot better now.

I have had spawning monsters since the start of the build (Preach's "style" "1" code that I have adapted somewhat) but only used it for ambushes and return routes. I will now extend it.

I also have selective corpse removal (I didn't like the look of monsters sinking through overhead walkways) and numerous 'killtarget', more for tidying up than anything else, so I will review the further use of these.

On the one hand I am fedup with continually finding limitations within Quake (yes, I know it's ten years old!) but on the other hand, it's great fun learning new things about it :-)

Thanks again. 

You might try to contact the author of NetVis:

seanc ::at:: gearboxsoftware.com 

if anyone has been tempted to add Quake support to Q3map2 now that the code for it is GPLed. I build my maps testing for leaks with that compiler before compiling to Quake format, and the compile times are usually quicker. 

Quick question for a Quake 2 or Quake 3 mapper: when you vis a map in those games, I assume it tells you the number of portals. Are the portal counts similar to those for Quake? If possible, could you post the console output from a vis job for a large map?

I'm just trying to get some perspective on some of the different tradeoffs used in the Q2/Q3 vis tools.

FWIW, there are some nice optimisations in there, and I've already managed to speed things up about 20% so far. That's only testing with medium size maps though (obviously I'm not going to run 10 different benchmarks on JPL's map ;). 

Thanks for the tip. I might try contacting him once the QExpo stuff is out of the way. 

tonight for a large Q3 map, if no one else gets around to it, and I don't get distracted by some shiny object.

I don't really want to post it because it would just be a big bolus of crap in the middle of the forum. :) 

Thanks pjw. 

I sent the vis log for pjw3dm5, along with compiler/switch info; let me know if you need anything else. 

I noticed the vis time on that gigantic Q3 map took...six seconds. Is there a simple non-coder explanation for why vis takes so damn long on earlier engines?

700 portalclusters
1682 numportals
2736 numfaces
3364 active portals
416 hint portals
visdatasize:61608
Total visible clusters: 54658
Average clusters visible: 78 

I guess detail brushes help a shitload, now that I think about it.

I'll shut up now. 

Yes, I think it's the detail brushes mainly. numportals is the important one to watch - I'm dealing with about 40,000 numportals for my stupid map...

Another interesting fact: the "-fast" vis process on this map is so innefficient that the resulting visdata adds about 12MB to the bsp file size! 

Ok, my level is nearly finished, but now I seem to have hit upon a curious problem which crashes LIGHT if I add anymore brushes.

At the moment I can light the map only if it is less than a certain amount of brushes. If I add new brushes, I have to delete other brushes, so at the moment I am just disabling the clip brush visgroup when I export to map. This works, but soon I will run out of clip brushes to do this with, and actually rather like the map to have clip brushes.

Aguires light crashes straight away, but when I tried using tyrlight, I got an error, whgich was something like "bad face normal at x,x,x". Of course, this was on a compiled bsp, so finding the culprit was difficult, and I think it might be different every time.

BSP and VIS run fine without any warnings, and I have tried using other compilers, not using remove skip etc. all to no avail. If anyone has any idea what the problem is, I will be your best buddy for life!

Please help! Sorry I haven't clarified this more, I don't hve much net access time left. 

If you send me the zipped bsp, I'll look into it. 

shortly it will be done.

I love you, AguiRe! xxx 

I need a couple of people to help test my dm3 sp remake before QExpo. I have already sent the first beta off to some people, but would like a fresh set of eyes to look when the second is ready. Any takers? 

me! 

I'm in as well.. 

Cheers.

I will send you an email with the map when it's ready in the next week or so. 

meizah at gmail
Incomplete versions are fine too.
The geometry and gameplay and connectivity interests me the mosts, since i'm not that good on commenting looks. (cause i suck at mapping) 

That's all the testers I need. Like I said before, I will email as soon as the second beta is ready. 

I lost my Paint Shop Pro .pal file, and when I try to create a new index by using WinQuake screenshots, I don't get the full 256 varieties of Quake flavors. If someone could send an accurate index to the address I have listed, I would not only be your best .pal (har!har!har!) but pay for the ticket for the mapper of your choice to
come to your town and give you a complementary handjob. 

.pal ?? What it is supposed to be ? 

If you have the palette.lmp file, just use the old palcnv12 utility:
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/utils/graphics_edit/misc 

I'll arrange for Stevie Case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_%22Killcreek%22_Case
to fly in this weekend ;)