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Still didn't finish Fort Driant, but I have to say that it's like a Marcher Fortress epic. Really interesting vehicle brushwork, and ambient sounds. The whole level has a mystery about it that has to be explored.
If this was my map I'd still polish it up for a final version. JPL, this world has tons of computers doing nothin. So go down to a local BestBuy and load 20 different map versions of your level to compile, and come back 17 days later! Nobody at BestBuy will know what the hell is going on anyways. Map Notes At around the 100 monster mark, I heard a total of 3 times that a nearby enemy (behind walls or something) had gotten gibbed for no apparent reason. It sounds like they are spawning inside other monsters, or a triger_hurt of 1000 damage. I dunno what's happening cause I can't see them. I didn't know that HOM's were created after the vis process. HOM's are the only error I never got in my maps... yet. In FD-HOM3.jpg, would a brush added in front of that corner get rid of the HOM? And also, maybe try omiting the cutout views at FD-HOM1.jpg/FD-HOM2.jpg? Cutout windows don't have to be everywhere. That FD-HOM4.jpg can be walked into, giving all kinds of leak visuals. Maybe replacing brushes there, or deleting that area is a fix. Lastly, that elevator disappears when viewed at the bottom, from a short distance. Check that all the elevator entity brushes are inside the level, or just delete the pulley cable. There's not that much brush data up there to vis-block against, so the elevator should be visable. Something's funny with the elevator's brushes. Another thing, the eagle's head on that presidential emblem is visable in Aguirre's engine but almost invisable in Fitz? Overall, excellent brushwork, lighting, sounds and gameplay... Way to go! what value is black?
the penultimate achievement in American art was Davis' early 70's release, Bitches Brew, so that is a start. the numbers for r_clearcolor specify a color index in the quake palette. 0 is black, 1-15 are shades of grey, etc.
Mixed bag.
That is this level, for me. Obviously, it's architecturally stunning and very satisfyingly explorable. 14 secrets well mixed and generally helpful. Maybe too much. Sure, this wealth of supplies (if u find the secrets) lets you go in head first without worrying too much about saving ammo, but it feels a bit unbalanced. The real, let's say let down, for me is gameplay. After a somewhat challenging start, by the time you come back from getting the blue key, it is all over. Nice and varied as they are, Quoth base monsters are still base monsters, at the core, i.e. cannon fodder. RL and SNG are pure overkill. A lot less Ammo would have been maybe better, given the quantity of it that you get from any monster in the level. Monter placement is a bit flawed, too, IMHO... Packs of edies and grunts can be disposed of with ease from a distance, the central area is a piece of candy to pass through and go back... The end battle is nasty, on paper, but if you find the right strategy (I did by accident on my 1st romp through) is easy as it gets, just a matter of time. Recurring waves of monsters would have limited infighting given more of a challenge to the player, maybe... I played on skill 3 and did a 353/353, 7/14, 38:something on 1st run. Died 3 times. On 2nd romp, I did 100% secrets and kills. Strangely, the door after the collapsed bridge did not close after I got in, allowing for some backtracking and secret hunting... I dunno... I love it and I don't... Mixed Bag. I'll post a full run demo later, if anyone's interested... The real, let's say let down, for me is gameplay. After a somewhat challenging start, by the time you come back from getting the blue key, it is all over. Nice and varied as they are, Quoth base monsters are still base monsters, at the core, i.e. cannon fodder.
Don't really agree with that. Quoth base enemies are a pain in the arse, I'd rather face medium level Quake enemies most of the time. Sniping from a distance is all very well if: 1. They are at a distance and not crowded round the top of a very slow sticky ladder you're climbing and 2. Actually visible cos most of the enemies in this map seemed to be lurking the dark spots. Not that that's always a problem but I don't think gameplay can be glossed over because it's "just" "base" enemies. You're right, Sham...
But, having a RL, GL and almost infinite supply of ammo for those, everything becomes quite... Well, you know... Anytime you hear a suspicious sound, all you have to do is lob some 10 grenades in the hole you heard it come from and you're done. Then you just have to go in a finish off the job with 1/2 SSG shots... I was referring to the rather large groups of grunts you get to meet while making your way up to the reactor... You take them out without breaking a sweat... Same with Edies on your way back... But I'm not saying this is necessarily bad, it's just that I had the feeling this was quite easy on NM, and I consider myself a below average player... But,hey, this is a great level! Maybe it's just me growing up and playing sober. My aim improved dramatically!!!! When I was 17, Quake was still 10 years down the road...
Had to settle with playing with myself... ;P But I'm not saying this is necessarily bad, it's just that I had the feeling this was quite easy on NM, and I consider myself a below average player...
You're wrong on that, you're not a below average player that's for sure. Having read your comments elsewhere and on this, it's obvious you're well above average. This felt reasonably tough on Skill2 and I assume that being a base map Skill3 is definitely harder. It's not too tough by any stretch IMO though, just tough enough. Anyway, I do agree about the RL, it is all over once one gets that. The GL, hmmm, I was being careful using it. I don't think the terrain is always conducive to it in this map. Aw... well... thanks.
As a matter of fact, you get the RL fairly soon, if you hunt it down. The same in APSP2, for instance, but the shortage of ammo and the environmental hazards made up for a much more balanced experience IMO. GL is the key to this level. Especially the ending. Tonight I'll record a demo, so you can see what I mean. For now, thanks for your rather high consideration of my skills. And thanks JPL for a great level! jdhack:
Thnaks for the positive comments. I had some comments about breakable objetcs made by negke during beta testing, but due to my lazyness (after 1 year of work, I've been quite pissed off the map :P) I didn't add some: my mistake... robot: Again, thanks for the feedback. I noticed also lately the elevator issue in the fullvis version. My problem is that I don't know why it is not present (i.e HOMs and elevator desapearing) in fastvised version, and present in fullvis version. aguirRe told me some ime ago it may happen for some dark reasons he is not even aware of... Maybe it is due to the map size... not sure.... I also didn't notice the eagle's head issue... anyway... Shambler: I need feedback: go play the map and provide it please ;) the silent: I'm glad you enjoyed the map, as regarding your first set of comments it was not obvious ;) the more about gameplay... Well, you maybe should try to play the map without the secrets, then it will be a different story, believe me... and for sure you ar not an average player, as you found the 14 secrets: good job !! Overall, thanks everybody for the valuable feedback :D If I remember correctly, this happens if a brush model is so large that it spans >1 vis leaf. I'm not sure if it's a bug/limitation in qbsp or vis or the engines themselves (although I think DarkPlaces has a workaround). I don't know if there's anything a mapper can do to avoid it...
Probably with the fast vis, the map was divided into fewer vis leafs, so the lift ended up being contained within one area. [Note that this is all theorizing based on vague memories, so don't hold me to it] No problem, at least you provided a possible explanation of the issue ;)
I however have a stupid question (maybe): why all these issues are visible in the fullvis version, and not in the fastvis version ? It is weird because as far as I understood the fullvis processing, it is much about face / volume rendering optimization... How can the process can generate such thing ? PS: I will ask aguirRe in paralell BTW ;) As jdhack said, in the fastvis version the visleafs are bigger, thus the elevator/whatever problematic things are likely not spanning more than one leaf.
Pretty reasonable explanation if you ask me. The solution would be to change the brushwork so fewer portals/leaves are created in the problematic areas, ie make it simpler, or smaller, or optimize vis blocking. I think. You simply hit the limits there. You cut it into two pieces - so if its a func wall you make it two separate func walls.
If its a vertical lift then maybe there's something else going on, since vertical spaces are ignored by the vis process. I still haven't been able to play, but will. You don't know exactly where the vis leafs start and end (maybe some engine has the option to draw these) so you don't know where to cut your entity.
Basically the center point of your entity designates which vis leaf it's in, if you're stood in a visleaf that can't see the one that your entity is in then the engine doesn't draw it. So the physical size of the thing doesn't matter, only dimensions of the vis leaf that it's center is in.
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