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Posted by sock on 2017/02/20 14:56:45 |
When I play old custom Quake maps, I often feel like they are a snapshot of what the community was like at the time. With different skill levels, map sizes and monster counts all changing over time, I wonder how new and old mappers perceive these changes.
As someone who has been around for a while I can see that my map style has changed. I certainly love to experiment more with different setups and I am always curious to see what styles are popular. There are so many old timers and lurkers on this forum that download maps in silence, they surely must have a view of how the map styles have changed over the years!
I am curious to know ...
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors? |
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Answers Embedded Inline
#26 posted by JPL on 2017/02/22 20:26:03
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Generally normal skill + save
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
No, I'd rather take time to explore and look for details / architecture.. to "pick" ideas, or just to contemplate when it is well done..
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Yes, if the map deserves it.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
Not necessarily, it depends on the map, and the mapper
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Never... If I die, I reload, retry, and if I fail again, I cheat (godmode <- I know, shame on me) just to be able to pass the critical section, and then return to normal play...
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Well, it may be pissing off... but I think giant maps are cool (I am thinking about some Kinn's map I can't remember the title..)
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Yes if I have several of those to spend hours of playing ;) A good map size is about 30mn time of fun.. not counting the exploration
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
No...
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
Well, if it is really good I tend to congratulate people for their work.. Note that if I don't post any feedback it does not mean I do not like the map.. it is may be that I didn't had time to play it ;)
Enjoy !!
#27 posted by ericw on 2017/02/22 21:01:21
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Normal skill + occasional quicksaves so I can continue playing if I mess up. I'm not that interested in micro-optimizing ammo / health / infighting, more interested in experiencing the gameplay setups + action + exploration + appreciating the atmosphere / visuals.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
No
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
I'll do a bit of this, but IMO taken to the extreme (going for 100% secrets on a first run) will usually ruin the pacing of a map.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
No, only if I replay a favourite map to get 100%.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
No, unless it's truly unfair.. can't think of any examples off hand.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Yes. Good giant maps can be immersive / atmospheric in a way that small maps can't. Getting truly lost is annoying, but it can be mitigated by careful design.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Yes.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
For my favourite maps, yes, I'll replay on hard or nightmare.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
Just to give a small token in return for the hours the mapper spent.
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
I'm not great at single player. I have always played MP much more so I'm pretty terrible. I usually play on normal and don't feel too compelled to punish myself with a challenge. I play games for fun not the challenge. HL2 was great this way. Just hard enough but always fun.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Not generally. Especially if it's a well designed map; I get more and more drawn in.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Most of the time yes.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
No, but I am always looking. Secrets were always one of the highlights of the original id levels.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
No. I don't love excessive in-fighting though. It's frustrating and I wish modern source ports could have a "slider" for in-fighting. Perhaps: "never>rarely>normal"
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Yes, I do like that as long as the path is clear. Very few times in id levels do you feel lost. But I still see this in a lot of modern larger levels. I've given up many larger levels.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Yes - that's usually my preference due to my personal life.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
Not often.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
As a thank you for their hard work. I know the time commitment it takes and I appreciated the time people took to play my MapJam6 entry especially when there were much better maps in the pack.
#29 posted by Joel B on 2017/02/24 20:52:33
Well there's already been a ton of responses here but I like to think/type about this sort of thing, so...
1. play style?
I'll skip this one since I'm not sure what to say beyond what is covered by the following questions...
2. in a hurry?
Not in a big hurry no. My playing time blocks are somewhat limited these days though, so if I don't finish a map in one sitting it becomes less likely that I will go back to finish it. That does also make me somewhat impatient with getting lost.
3. every nook and cranny?
If there's a place that can be reached without trickjumps or secrets, I will go there. So e.g. even if there are alternate routes I will do both.
I'll look for some secrets on the way through but won't burn a lot of time on that. Once I get to the end of a map I do like to run back and check for missed secrets before exiting. (So it's nice if there aren't any points-of-no-return.)
4. every secret?
Nah. Even on the final pass back through a map I am fine with letting some secrets remain un-found when I start to get bored.
5. hated monster setups?
I'm not a fan of big-difficulty-spike finale rooms that just try to overwhelm you with numbers. Other than that though, whatever is fine.
To be clear, even finale rooms are fine if they are interesting fights instead of slogs, and even hordes are fine if the setup is "outdoors" (lots of space) and provides ways to break contact, do ambushes, etc.
6/7. giant map? 15 minutes blast?
I already typed about this some in the "what's right with Quake mapping" thread, so I won't put a lot more here, but TLDR:
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a giant map, but often not.
A map at the extreme other end of the spectrum could be good fun if it is a real nostalgia hit, has a clever theme/gimmick, or the author is super ace at creating combat encounters. My sweet spot for single maps is somewhere more than 15 minutes I guess, although for chained-together maps in an episode sequence they can be shorter.
8. replay on different skill?
Nope. I'll just start on skill 2 or skill 3 depending on my mood and what I know about the mapper's style, and if I make it through to the end that's fine for me.
9. feedback?
If there's a messageboard thread and the mapper asks for feedback I'm more likely to actively look for something to say. If it's a beta, I'll want to point out any bugs I saw. For a map released into the wild without explicit requests for feedback I'll probably just play, enjoy, and go on my way.
I've tried recording and sharing first-play demos in the past, but I find that I change the way I play when I'm recording. I don't know how really useful that would be to the mapper then.
#30 posted by Newhouse on 2017/02/25 08:54:48
1.My play style changes, if maps clearly seems to offer different tactics (I like when maps do that), I like rushing the enemies if possible, but also I like to take an advantage of the situation.. sometimes I just play around with enemies because infighting.. or just because they doesn't give you much challenge after knowing maps better.
2. I follow flow, some maps seems to be designed to be rush maps.. so that is why I want to rush and move fast. But often I replay maps and try to see tactical elements what I didn't figure out in my first playthrough.
3. As long mapper gives me some clues about the possible secret, and even if it is not obvious I appreciate if I can figure out them on my next playthroughs. For example if I shoot wall and it opens.. there is nothing inside, so there mist be something right? I axe inside walls and suddenly something indeed opens and there is armor or something. I like when some secrets require player to actually understand the secret language map is trying to teach the player.
4. Hard to say, in some cases finding those secrets is really rewarding, that is why I surely want to try find as many as possible.
5. Everything goes if it is designed well, tuned on skill levels etc. It is nice to see some very innovative fights now and then. But personally 3-5 waves of enemies would be enough, unless those waves in a row have something interesting going on. Recently played conquer jam and there was very interesting area designs.
6. Giant maps.. as long as there is enough landmarks and stuff like that to make it easier to navigate. Personally I don't want to get lost, I want to be on my mental map and in control. Best feeling is that when you suddenly realize you were here before and the way it is connected to other parts of a map is designed in a interesting way.
7. I especially love compact levels that can offer as much as possible during 15-30 minutes of gameplay (this time includes secret finding, looking around designs, tries if hard part etc.) But even 5-10 minute maps can be as fun to try master, I think more shorter the map is more time passionate player might spend on that level in order to get everything it can offer. But giant maps can be still very replayable material, it is more or less challenge to try find every secrets (ad_swamp), sometimes it requires too much patiency.
8. Yes, I play compact well designed smaller maps multiple times, because I want to master them.
9. To encourage mappers to continue their great work of course, so I can play more these cool maps.
#31 posted by Kinn on 2017/02/25 13:57:56
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Cautious. Creep around picking monsters off as they come into view. I never charge into a room unless I'm being forced to flee from a dangerous encounter.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Depends on the map. If the map interests me, I'll play it properly, slowly, and explore as much as I can, but if the map doesn't really grab me I'll just do the bare minimum needed to finish it.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
See answer to 2.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
No. I know that it's the fashion to put in 10+ secrets these days, some of which would probably outwit the mapper himself. I consider 50% secrets founds a decent innings.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Hordes are not a problem if the environment is big enough and interesting enough, and the player has good weapons and enough ammo.
Quad/Pent/RL/LG are a little bit underused in custom maps. People tend to forget that powerups and big weapons were given out like candy in the vanilla maps (especially Episode 4), and it's OK to have the odd gib fest in a map every now and then.
What I find tedious are those maps where you don't have decent weapons/ammo and have to do crap like picking vores and shamblers off with the shotgun. You know the ones.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
If the map is high quality in terms of gameplay, layout, and architecture, then yes by all means it can be arbitrarily big. If the map is an unimaginative copy-and-paste trudge then obviously not.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Depends on my mood. 15 mins sounds ok, but if the map is really good then it could hold my interest for much longer.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
Yes, if the map is awesome I will play it multiple times.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
If the map is awesome, I may give feedback. If the map is Cranky Steve terrible I may also give constructive feedback because it pains me to see mappers making such mistakes.
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
I play fast and try to use make groups of enemies infight as much as possible. However I'm not a fan of relentlessly hard difficulty so nowadays I tend to play skill 1 more than 2.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
No, I like to move fast and strafe jump all over the place but I don't play in a hurry.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
If the map has clearly marked secrets, sure, otherwise it's a lot of frustration.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
I don't feel like I have to, but I try to.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
I'm put off by boring setups, like a mass of Death Knights vs the DBS. If it takes too long to kill I'll get annoyed.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
No, giant maps are best if there's a very clear primary path and no messy distractions. I'll take APSP3, or any Warp Spasm map, over Foggy Bogbottom any day.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
I enjoy big maps but they can make me feel exhausted towards the end. 10-15 minutes for a map is probably the optimal "fun" time for me.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
If it's a really good map and I feel I can get more "mileage" out of it, then sure. I replayed ad_scastle on a different skill immediately after my first play.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
I'm the kind of person who believes that there is always room for improvement, and I enjoy pointing that out :)
#33 posted by Rick on 2017/02/26 18:33:53
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Very casual. I play maps mostly to look around and explore, not to kill monsters.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Never.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Most of the time.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
No.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Yes.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
I prefer maps that are large, but there are some that I've found to be a bit too much.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
I will probably skip a map if I know it's very small.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
Generally speaking, no. I've probably done it, but just don't remember.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
I've never been much of a source of feedback.
Hey Sock
#34 posted by negke on 2017/02/26 19:56:01
How would YOU answer the questions?
#35 posted by ayy lmao on 2017/02/28 15:58:40
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Easy mode. Godmode. Weapons cheats. Quake's combat is so mindnumbingly boring in 2017 that I find fighting monsters properly a complete waste of time. I only play levels to appreciate the level design and architecture, the standards of which are generally fantastic. I wish we had modern quake level design in another game with actually interesting gameplay.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Not usually, if it looks nice.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Nah, I find that dulls the whole experience if I obsess about finding every little cupboard.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
No. See answer to 3.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
All combat in Quake is execrably dull, so I just cheat through it. Even in AD when it tries to shakes things up with bosses, you still just circle strafe the boss who's always just a big meat wall the same as the rest, just with more health.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Any size maps are good - it's the quality that matters. Getting lost is a design flaw though.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Sure, that works for me, but I don't mind bigger.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
I always stick it on Easy because I don't care about combat.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
I rarely would. Happy to leave that to other players who play it without cheats.
#36 posted by Qmaster on 2017/03/02 19:28:51
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Run and gun. Like to jump around on ledges and crates while fighting. Generally careless about agroing monsters. Circle strafing is the best.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Not usually, I want to see every nook and cranny, get into the mind of the designer and see how things are done, good or bad so I can imitate or avoid.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Usually. Faster paced maps get a good fly thru on noclip after making it to the end.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
YES!!
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Depends on my mood.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Both, again depends on my mood.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Wait..is there such a thing anymore? I suppose that would be a good thing to pace the behemoths lately.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
No, always on hard to guarantee full experience and completionism.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
Knowing that I would want the same.
All This Data And No Analysis?
#37 posted by Mike Woodham on 2017/03/02 19:49:22
...or conclusion
The Conclusion...
#38 posted by PRITCHARD on 2017/03/02 22:58:05
... will come when every person who has ever played Quake has answered the survey.
Honestly though I think that it's just a "survey" to get people talking about how they play. It's left to the reader to decide who is a terrible/tolerable person.
Oh!
#39 posted by Mike Woodham on 2017/03/02 23:49:24
I Thought
that this was socks method of stopping us from tearing each other to pieces with shitposting.
sock, keeping the peace since 1996.
Sock Is Just
#41 posted by Qmaster on 2017/03/03 22:31:34
Encouraging us to go map small maps using our leftover scrap ideas. Don't worry about ever achieving the grand epicness of AD. Go map yonder peons.
Or something to that effect.
#42 posted by quakeulf on 2017/08/10 12:43:25
>1. What is your play style like nowadays?
I try to speedrun Quake 2 but I get shit luck. Which means I am pretty familiar with how the games work.
>2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Never ever. Mapping is a labour of love, and love takes time. :3c
>3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Only if I feel compelled to, and this comes down to how the map layout is along with what it looks like. My sense of 3D-space has got a little better over the years from doing 3D-work so I can tell more likely if there's a tiny or large secret around. What I like is if there's a secret area behind an obstacle that you need to find a way around to get to.
>4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
No. :3
>5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Yes, because it feels cheap. However, after I have the KWADD let them at me. :3
>6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Very yes. :3
>7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Yes, that works too. :3
>8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
Very rarely.
>9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
Upon witnessing WIPs in progress and when there's a glaring issue.
Lurker Reporting
Wish I knew the markup/HTML code for this forum.
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Rather cautious, but I'm able to speed up and get dangerous in a tight spot or suspicious clearing. Strafing in-between hordes and bunny-hopping are easy for me now, so I like to use creative tactics and infighting between quieter moments. I gravitate towards SNG and RL use even though I've got a soft spot for grenades and Old Mister Axe. Knights are my favorite mob to kite and mess with, and I feel comfortable with harder platforming challenges.
Most of the time I use saves, less often for replays and shorter maps. At first I had to rely on savescumming until I understood physics and enemy strats better, yet I don't feel I missed out on tension and escalating design in commercial and custom maps/campaigns. Combat's become more important to me after trawling through older maps (which got me used to the old-school look whether good or bad); I'd rather play custom Doom WADs if I want to do a lot of puzzling or figure out a maze for completion.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Only if I end up losing interest but feel a need to finish, such that I can piece together an opinion via an average run of the map. Slow and controlled, without holing up for too long, gets me through long sessions, and I'm not far enough into my life yet to worry about gaming hours. Working from the earliest interesting (and archived) Quake maps up through newer works has made me a bit impatient, just not when playing since I know needless mistakes will delay me longer.
So far I've beaten my way up to Travail and This Onion while trying out some of the newest maps to get a feel for where Quake 1 SP's heading. This meal I shall savor.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Definitely. Seeing all the hard work and ideas mappers put into these worlds never gets old. It's genuinely inspiring, enough for me to noclip without prejudice once I've completed a really neat level. Believability, or some kind of internal logic revealing itself to me on a playthrough, adds motivation to take a second look before quitting or binging for more.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
Nope. I try my best to find most secrets, especially ones which have been hinted at subliminally or with a stronger carrot on a stick. Getting through challenging maps can be a pain without them, but I'll skip more snooping if the map's easier than expected and on the longer side.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Certain enemy, layout/hazard and weapon/ammo combinations seem difficult for most mappers to get right (e.x. spawn/fiend claustrophobia as mentioned earlier). I feel even spawns can be used right and will enrich scenarios, so the answers depends on how a map or just the highlighted portion works. When giving feedback, I might criticize mod enemies/weapons more frequently than anything sourced from /id1, mainly because modders have general balance issues/bugs to address and responsibility for iterating on/revolutionizing how Quake SP can play.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
Not at the expense of smaller ones...not that I think we've been lacking in recent years. A smaller map or two can benefit from easier replayability and more impact than a needlessly lengthy excursion. There's advantages for mappers to work on both ends of the scale and somewhere else on the scale/length/complexity/accessibility spectrum (not sure if that's the best model, lol). I'll gladly take on any maps which look fun, interesting, and which reflect some strong theme or set of a mapper's interests.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Never enough. Following from #6, I appreciate having really short maps where I can knock some monsters around and blast through a microcosm between chores and work.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
Occasionally I'll replay something I greatly enjoyed or which I find useful for testing configurations, but I stick with skill 2 unless the combat's demonically hard and even turtling to save ammo doesn't work.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
I haven't yet done feedback on Func and fell out of commenting on maps via Quaddicted. Eventually I'll catch up to recent works so I can analyze and get thorough about specific things which need or deserve constructive discussion. This might take a while at the pace I've been clearing my custom Quake backlog——just for the record though, I really love everything coming out of the modern Quake scene. Godspeed to all new Quake mappers getting their feet in this community! Maybe I'll join you all someday, and that's one reason why I'll give feedback for new maps once I get around to them and can interact with whoever made them.
#44 posted by nemo on 2018/05/13 20:05:07
1. exploration / speedrunning
2. yes
3 & 4 if the level design is great, yes. i love architecture & aesthetic. the more the map is polished, the more i like to explore. i'm not really into challenge / killing enemies.
5. no
6. ooohhh yes
7. that kind of map is great too, depends on the intent/gameplay. i have an idea for such a map (hopefully i'll have time for a second entry for the 100 brush challenge).
8. if i like the map, yes. mastering a map, and recording clean demos/walkthrouh, and sharing on youtube is great for chilling - no brainner.
9. if the author is here on the board, and connect/share, yes. i'm new to quake (i played it for the first time on 2016) but i've been making maps for goldsrc since 2000'. the community seems very small, but solid - i'm willing to put blood & swear into it.
#45 posted by [Kona] on 2018/05/15 07:26:32
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
Plodding along the main route.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
Well I don't piss around.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Not really tbh. I'll attempt to explore each route, but don't go digging into tiny crannies for secrets.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
I don't feel I have to find any secrets.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
Hellspawn can fuck off. I don't like lots of shamblers at once they zap me like a little bitch.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
BIG FAT NO
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Yep 15mins sounds good. I usually have a bit of a pile of maps to play at once - I don't play them when they first come out so every few months I'll load up a bunch to get through.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
Never.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
Boredom. Something else to do to avoid work.
#46 posted by mgtroyas on 2018/05/15 09:48:00
1. What is your play style like nowadays?
More skillful but equally cautious, saving from time to time and covering behind corners.
2. Are you in a hurry to finish the map?
No if I'm enjoying it.
3. Do you pause to explore and find every nook and cranny?
Sometimes, if the design is good. I hate secrets completely hidden and mesnt to be found by axing every wall.
4. Do you feel you have to find every secret?
I don't usually find much, only if the design is cool I do some extra search.
5. Are you put off by certain monster (horde) setups?
I hate vores placed away and without option to cover.
6. Do you want giant maps to explore and be lost in?
I hate being lost. I like big maps if well designed.
7. Do you want a quick 15 min blast and that is enough?
Sometimes, others I can spend more time.
8. Do you play the same map again with different skill levels?
No, nowadays I always play on nightmare.
9. What drives you to give feedback to map authors?
Well designed, cared maps are a gift to the community and need all our praise and respect.
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