LordHavoc - like I say, I love what you did with DarkPlaces but, well, as I've mentioned before, my system has serious problems running all versions since the 21may04 build.

I've since been checking out FitzQuake, with the intention of using this as my "engine of choice". It's a fantastic engine that emulates Quake's original look and feel, whilst still providing the most important extra features to meet the demands of modern maps. If FitzQuake would allow me to replace my sprite frames with external .tga textures, it would be the perfect engine IMHO. 

Does it really have increased map/entity limits? I tried FitzQuake 0.75 in my spawning test map, and it hit "no free edicts" at about the same time as standard quake. 

well, if anyone cares, my ideal engine would be somewhere halfway between fitzquake and DP.

i need to try DP with sv_jump thing disabled and detail textures off though, i don't have the means to do that atm.

anyway, taking FQ as a base, i'd like to add:

-q3bsp format support
-any sized bounding box
-controllable particle effects, ie customizable TempEntity effects, not just the built in ones.
For example, TE_EXPLOSION2 has limited customizability in that you can specify the colours that it will use, but, you can't change the speed, duration, or behaviour of the particles at all.
-NOT have r_exp3.wav automatically played with explosion tempentities. sure, it makes sense, but it's also bad if you want to use the particle effects with a different explosion sound.
-Flying Monster BugFix
-TGA Sprites
-Model Interpolation
-Larger Edict Limit
-Larger BModel limit(or whatever it is) (i know this breaks compatibility for netplay, but i am talking from a purely SP pov. maybe have this setting optional via command line, so that you could still use the engine for netplay on maps that don't need the high limit, but on SP maps that require it, you turn it on)
-Stop Packet Overflows

..that's it for right now... writing this all down on the fly, so i might have missed something...

i'm starting to get the feeling that DP could be used with everything except what i'm talking about disabled... but i won't be able to tell until i can see a cvar list.

...hm, maybe the real reason people dislike DP is because there isn't any documentation to let people know that they can turn things off (like Nitin who couldn't turn off the bump mapping) 

ie: when i said "any sized bounding box" what i really mean is "no hulls" 

no, FQ doesn't have bumped edict limits, neither does it handle packet overflows differently from GLQ...

i find this is the major flaw of FQ atm... well, that and the skybox bug, bug that's fixed in the next version anyway. 

Necros, I'd probably say almost the same thing if someone asked me to describe my dream engine.

However, I'd settle for FitzQuake + increased entity limits + packet overflow reduction + tga sprites (Additive blend mode).

Q3BSP support is the holy grail of engine features for me though. I know DP has it, but I've already described the issues I have with DP. 

I went ahead and sent a copy of the extension list. It may be a little under documented but there is enough info there to get a grasp of the cvar settings. There is also a tutorial on Inside3d on modding for DP that can be useful as well.

On the general question; I am still using glquake/fitzquake for the next handful of levels that I'm pushing out the door because they are single map adventures (two very nearly finished, I'm just trying to improve my brush work and texturing at this point), but after that I'm going to need a custom engine and Q3 bsp capabilaties. 

Thanks for the nice comments on fitzquake, guys.

Jago: turns out i wrote most of fitzquake's core rendering stuff. I do have some darkplaces code in fitzquake, though it's mostly utility functions like frustum culling and vector math and that sort of thing.

Lordhavoc: darkplaces is extrememly customizable and I think it could satisfy most people if only they knew how to customize it. Lack of decent documentation is the biggest problem with darkplaces, in my opinion. 

Would you be willing to consider bumping up some of the map limits (like aguirRe is doing with his engines) for a future FQ release?

Pretty please? ^_^ 

but wouldn't that just encourage mappers to release maps that go over the limits? 

That's the point. Many mappers (me included) feel that it's time to push the boundaries/limits of the Quake engine. Now if only all engine writers could agree on BY HOW MUCH they should push them. 

tried the latest version, it actully works ok on my system and looks and runs better than prvious builds. I've got most the options the way I want (it took a lot of fiddling but anyway).

Can someone tell me how to revert the blood effects back to normal and also how to get the weapon and monster effects back to normal. Right now there's a big coloured glow on things like scrag attacks, rocket explosions etc.

Also, is it me or is the player turn speed and jump speed different than normal? 

and I'm happy that the DP software lighting now looks like fitz's. 

yes, i noticed the jump speed and turn speed too... not sure if it really is different or not...

also, disabling bump mapping really speeds things up, though the hell knight now has the cpu crusher attack added to his normal attack when using dynamic lights... :P it's too bad because the dynamic lights work fine for other monsters, but because the hknight shoots 5 projectiles at the same time, it starts hurting my vidcard. :P

also, why is the jumping messed up? when i jump, then hold down the jump button while still in the air, when i hit the ground, the jump sound gets made but i don't actually move up. is that a bug? 

... will encourage many mappers to start very huge map.. Engine limitation for sure limits mappers' creativity ;) 

I think limits create the necessary context for creativity. 

But what if someone wants to make a FarCry clone mod using FitzQuake? It would take several applications of Terragen per map to achieve those lush landscapes. It would be a pity to deny this well, likely non-existent person. 

why not have raised limits and then let the mapper decide whether he wants to make a humongous map or a standard map? 

Creativity needs huge spaces to grow... Creativity in a small space is limited, so boosting up engine limits allow mappers to create much more creative maps... Take just the example of a tree: it can grow very easily if unconstrained due to "nature exhuberant creativity". Put the same tree into a small flower-pot, and never it can grow as it should...
I think that creativity works like this... but I understand your point of view metlslime, with constraints, mappers have to "use their brain" much more than if they are unconstrained... And what about brainstorming without constraints ?? It can give very good results, isn't it ?? 

About Quake not running on Mac OSX.. do you mean the original code, or... what exactly? Because I run this port: http://macglquake.sourceforge.net/ and all I have to do is copy the ID1 dir from my PC Quake cd. 

 

 

but wouldn't that just encourage mappers to release maps that go over the limits?

Firstly, I'm not talking about architectural limits (like map boundaries and stuff) - just increased edict counts, stop packet overflow and stuff.

Well I suppose this is just a request to make my new map playable in FQ, I guess. Otherwise I'll have to say it's DarkPlaces only, which might not go down too well, round here. :( 

you could make a map that's compatible with ALL engines, even if it looks better in some :) 

Please will everyone that seems to be able to get the latest DarkPlaces running, tell me if they experience what I'm experiencing:

With all versions after the 21may04 version (inclusing the latest Oct 6th version), the screen seemingly jerks and stutters at about 2 FPS, even if the FPS counter says "60 fps". What's more it feels like really, really bad lag rather than a low rendering framerate, almost as if I'm playing online on a 56k, but not quite. (I'm never online btw.)

Btw - I have *all* dynamic lighting features turned off; even dlights like the rocket glow turn the game into a 1 FPS slideshow.

With the May 21 build, it's silky-smooth again.

My system: Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop, 1.5GHz, 512MB RAM, GeForce4 440 GO.

I use this command line:

C:\QUAKE\darkplaces.exe -nocdaudio -novorbis -nojoy -noudp -noipx -noserial -nolan -sndspeed 11025 +exec bdw.cfg +skill 2 +developer 1 +map start

My vid drivers are up-to-date, and in any case, I don't feel I should have to worry about my graphics hardware just *to play Quake*.

Sorry, I don't want to turn this thread into a DarkPlaces tech support forum, but I've had no luck solving this problem using other channels of enquiry.