I don't understand why id, with all the money they having rotting away in the bank, have to stick with such a small dev. team. They could double their staff, and Doom3 would still rake in a massive profit (and probably would have been finished last year as well).

Q3A was one of the cheapest shortcuts in the history of gaming. With a few more level designers, they could have banged out a proper single player game in the same time, and still kept the deathmatch component. 

some of the team concentrated on spaceship building atm, so game developing is like a hobby now ;) 

On when D3 and HL2 might be out...

I'm not fussed really, as long as they are good. I've a few games to play in the meantime =). Personally I'd prefer autumn/winter, darker nights and grimmer weather gives a better gaming experience.

On Kinn's thoughts on HL2...

From what I've seen, there are too many gimmicky features in the game - bot ai sidekicks, all the physics hype, drivable vehicles etc.

All of those aspects can really enhance the gaming experience if they are used well. They're not necessarily gimmicks, but can be excellent features that improve the look, atmosphere, immersion, and gameplay potential. I wouldn't be so dismissive of them. Of course, it still depends what is done with those features.

On the two games overall...

I'm looking forward to both, both look good and sound good. D3 appeals to me more, simply because it's more my style. That's all =) 

...as long as the astronauts don't start hitting suspiciously-painted wall panels with an axe to try to find secrets - that's just asking for trouble. 

All of those aspects can really enhance the gaming experience if they are used well

That's true, Shambler. But what made Half-Life amazing for me was the creepy, claustrophobia of it all. Sidekicks and vehicles make for a very different experience; probably still good (Valve know they can't drop the ball on this one), but different nonetheless.

I'm looking forward to Doom3, but from what I've seen, I don't know how much of the shit-your-pants-monsters-jumping-out-from-the-shadows gameplay I can stomach. If it's anything like playing a marine vs aliens from AVP, I don't think I'd enjoy it. Overly scary != fun, in my opinion. 

that was meant to say "shit your pants monsters jumping out of the shadows", without quotes and with hyphens.

And yes, I'm aware I seem to have contradicted myself in that last post. :P 

I think the two games will be enjoyable to play.

About Doom III: I'm still a big fan of the Doom series (I play sometimes on my old PlayStation with Final Doom), and I hope the black-oppressive-weighty atmosphere of the first games will be preserved and improved... I'm also hoping the gameplay will be better and looks like more than a "kill them all / find the keys / and clear the level"... Furthermore, I hope the final released will not be "post-poned" this time... Sure I will not miss this game !!

About HL2, I really enjoyed playing HL(1).. even if I think the game is little bit too "linear".. The HL2 screenshots I've seen looks really good, and if it's designed in the same spirit, the should be great too..

To resume: wait and see, and try it ASAP !!! 

I'm looking forward to both. For those who aren't interested in on or the other or both, consider perhaps future mods for the games that might sway you. With all the engine advances, this could make way for even more fun mods. 

Legos Op-flash mod:
http://mods.moddb.com/gallery/1089/?start=0 

I completely lost what little excitement I had about Doom3 the moment I saw screenshots of that upside-down-head-on-spider-legs monster. Such nonexistant/fucked monster design does not belong in a title with such a high quality engine and production values. I can only hope that (once again) other companies will license the Doom3 engine and make much better games with it.

HL2 does interest me more, though I'm not super excited about it. If it had been released when it was supposed to be, it would have been awesome, but looking at the screenshots and stuff now is kind of like 'meh' because it seems that a lot of games are coming out that look as good as/better than HL2.

By the way, I can't agree with statements like all the physics hype. Its not hype, a nice physics system + a dynamic world = instant gameplay. I'm serious! There's so many more possibilities for the game/level designers if they care to use them, but even if they don't, its a lot of fun for the gamer to be able to push things around, blow stuff up, cause amusing ragdoll deaths etc (well, its fun for me!)

Anyways, I don't know too much about either game, as I tend not to pay too much attention to previews and hype (even for such highly anticipated titles). I am not super excited about either of them though. Perhaps I'm just getting jaded and cynical in my old age. 

Cool stuff.. it remind me the old Commando arcade game I loved play when I was 15... ;-) There was a long time now... sigh.... 

Or The chronicles of riddick - escape from butcher's bay to be more specific..

It's easily one of the best first person sp games I've played. Gameplay successfully alternates between pure action, sneak-em-up and some small adventure gameish bits. Doom 3 like graphics with normalmapping and superb animations.

I guess one reason many people here haven't played it is because it's only available on xbox but one can always hope there will be a pc version at some point. 

Overly scary != fun, in my opinion.

:O you must have hated System Shock 1/2.

personally, i love scary games. the scarier, the better. scare me to death, i always say... ;)

i think both games will be great, but i think i'll like hl2 more. some of the monsters in d3 look kind of goofy. i'll probably like the gameplay in d3 more, but prefer the story of hl2. 

I practice a lot windsurf, and a friend of mine e-mail me this web link.... It can be easily transposed to mapping stuff... he he he...

http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/../mag/back/issue2.3b.html

Enjoy !!! 

I think you've answered your own question there.

Shots do look good though, albeit very "random industrial sci-fi rooms". 

'I completely lost what little excitement I had about Doom3 the moment I saw screenshots of that upside-down-head-on-spider-legs monster.'

but I hated the look of that thing too. I would have had my sketch book thrown back in my face if I suggested to a client something that self evidently kitschy and I design tatoos, the ultimate kitsch art! How did it pass muster for the Id crew? 

That mod looks highly amusing. 

I can't remember where I read it, but Carmack's "physics toy" comment sums up my feelings pretty well. Does anyone remember the interview this came from? Anyway, I don't have anything against realistic physics in games as such, but every HL2 article I read just goes on and on about the "gravity gun" or whatever it's called, and how prominently it features as a gameplay device. It just sounds a little bit gimmicky, that's all. 

From what I've seen they range from suckage -eg. Lost Souls, that spidery thing, ("thing" being the key word here, lol - I wonder where that got that idea from?) Revenant looks a bit silly as well, but the concept is flawed from the start - a skeleton with twin shoulder-mounted rocket launchers? It's hard to not make that look laughable.

On the other end of the scale, you have awesomeness in the form of the Archvile, Hell Knight, and that other big demon we saw right at the start of D3 tech demonstrations - was that a Baron? Is it still in the game? 

"a skeleton with twin shoulder-mounted rocket launchers? It's hard to not make that look laughable."

I agree, but then theres various Doom/Quake monsters that are weak or laughable. Personally I think Cyberdemons are boring, ogres with chainsaws? Pff... 

ogres with chainsaws? Pff...

The Ogre makes me laugh. I'm sure this is common knowledge, but the ogre underwent quite a few revisions during Quake's development. He started off very medieval, had viking-like horns, and wielded an axe. Then he was re-imagined as a chainsaw-wielding, nail-shooting mish-mash of tech/medieval, until right at the last minute id changed the nails into grenades, but didn't change the ogre model, giving him the unique property of actually firing missiles that are bigger than the gun they come out of :P 

yeah, id's pretty funny that way.

still though, i think the cyberdemon is pretty cool looking. granted, it's not the most interesting to fight (it had like, what, 10000 health?) 

not to mention the original Shalrath model - ugh! (Although Zerstorer tried to salvage it).

It's really interesting looking through the QTest pak; I keep spotting new things - recently I noticed the Shambler skin being slightly higher-res in QTest than in the final game. 

at the QTest pak files. Some very interesting stuff in there, extra animations for the scrags and spawn for example. Most of the skins are slightly different: the ogre is more orange in particular, but also the scrag and shambler.

There are some more monsters, most are well known though, such as the dragon, and the stupid looking Shalrath that kinn mentioned.... also a 'serpent' and a 'vomitus' that i hadn't seen before. The serpent might be an attempt at a manta ray type thing? Looks a bit crap. The vomitus is unskinned but has great animations, potential to be quite cool. Maybe i've missed this one being used before.

Weapons are quite similar... the shotgun effect is more realistic than in the finished quake, but otherwise everything's worse. Walltorches are sprites...they suck. Oh, lots of monsters and the player have death anims where limbs/heads get blown off.

Interesting stuff indeed 

Yeah, the mesh on the Serpent is bolloxed for some reason. The Vomitus is used in Nehahra, but I think it looks arse - id were right to drop it.

I find the Fiend interesting - it looks as though he started life as a huge demon, but got shrunk somewhere along the way. In any case, he has been salvaged to some extent in Nehahra, and some of Kona's stuff.