Not much fun. Slow gameplay and erratic backtracking. I recorded it, though, so I might as well post it....

http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_singleplayer/evilexhumed_nm_thesilent.zip 

Is the DZ thing really necessary?
It has the best demo compression ratio out there, which is why it is used as standard.

If you are still having problems with Dzip, I have zipped both demos, and dropped them into a temp directory on my site -

http://www.quaketerminus.com/temp/evildemos.zip 

"It has the best demo compression ratio out there, which is why it is used as standard. "

Well, the DZip site mentions better compression geared towards getting the demos onto floppies which I can't imagine is much of a concern these days, is it? Anyway, I know I'm the odd man out here so mega thanks to everyone posted Mac friendly demos! :) 

Fails on big demos as well though. 

btw there is a __MACOSX folder inside the zip (hidden on your OS). And it always is a nice thing to make all filenames lowercase to avoid case-sensitive confusion and problems.

Is there a specific length/size where dzip fails? That's kinda :( 

"btw there is a __MACOSX folder inside the zip"

Yeah, there always seems to be. I wish it wouldn't do that. Grumble... 

I don't think that any of



the centerprints in this



map really added much of



anything, since they had no



impact on gameplay and were



otherwise kind of generic.




[ END ] 

Good architecture and lighting doesn't add to gameplay either, and can sometimes be generic. What makes center printed flavour text any different?

I'll agree it seems a heavy handed way of adding story to the experiance, but given the limitations of stock Quake, it's an understandably simple way to convey information. I believe the text bits were simply too long and tended to be distractions at times. The sweet spot would likely be a simple single line of text. 

that describe wierd sensations of terror, cold winds and sulfurous odors, written in the second person. 

I wanted to convey a sense of history and life to the place and I attempted to do that through a few things:

1) The centerprints. These were meant to be like personal logs you found in System Shock 2 and automated messages like the computer voice that spoke to you at times. Really meant to just give the place a sense of history and purpose.

2) The architecture itself. You get mentions of the words "ruins" and "mining" a few times before you actually see them. This should (hopefully() set up the players head to buy into the environment they're about to enter.

3) Since they already know it's a mining operation digging up ancient ruins, the medieval monsters shouldn't seem jarring and actually make some sense as the miners are now brainless zombies and the monsters are roaming free.

This was my first shot at injecting some story and sense of place into a Quake level while keeping the feel of the original game intact. I think I succeeded more than I failed - IMO anyway. :) 

for you, Willem:

http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_singleplayer/gbevil.zip

36 minutes, 90 kills, 0 secrets. Skill 1 IIRC.

Thanks for the map, the theme is nice and often well executed. I really liked the mine section, the base seemed a little bland at times, apart from the library, which was cool.

The outdoor section was somehow lacking. The sniping grunts with their insta-hit shotguns are ... hateable.

The upper story, with the two "huts", was a bit empty. Perhaps the lighting wasn't too interesting there, either.

The mines were my favourite part, although the corridors could have been bigger, and there should have been more health and ammo. I was very cautious because there were a lot of grunts and not much health.

It is easy to miss the thunderbolt and RA, because frankly, every part of the library looks the same. It's too symmetric I guess, maybe a center room would have been good. The grates with enforcers from below were good.

I would generally have liked more ammo, health, and a bigger weapon OR more room to maneuver. Don't make the mistake of expecting the player to have "secret X" here. You should never calculate with the secrets when putting in health, ammo etc. Always assume the player finds no secrets.

The fiends didn't work; see the demo. =??????

The centerprints should have been wav files; the map would have required something like Extras or Quoth then, but it would have been worth it.

I'm all for storytelling in Quake maps, though!

Another problem with the centerprints was that they didn't log to the console.

The ending was lacking; I just skipped the second shambler, because chipping away at him with the shotty wasn't bearable really. The shamblers in this case worked like turrets, by defining a "danger zone" but not really posing a threat. Let me get at them! :)

The problem with the shaft is that it has limited range; against the final shamblers (considering their placement) it wasn't really the right weapon.

More playtesting would have made this map better.

All in all:

Layout ++
Theme ++
Story ++

Atmosphere - (lighting, sounds, scale)
Action - (either more ammo or health, space)
Monster choice/placement - (sniping grunts, shamblers)

It appears to be a "head" map, as opposed to a "gut feeling" map. It is a nice theme though. I played cautiously because of the grunts, and because I wanted to submit a complete demo. 

i don't know why someone wants to see a "larger" map from willem, this seemed to be a good size for a quake map. 

centerprints are OK in principle, but they should go on one page. You can do line breaks in Quake :-P

I applaud the attempt at storytelling.

Make a second edition Willem! :) 

Plus, the onscreen messages got me fucked a coupla of times. No good reading with fiends and ogres jumping at you. Annoying.

Umm, you don't need to rush headfirst around the next corner while reading, especially since there were previous centerprints which should have established the concept. :-) 

I like how you missed the big flashing red button at the start location, gb. :) You found it eventually though...

As for the messages not going to the console, that's weird. They do in Fitz. 

Do you feel that E1M3 didn't convey its hideous, cavernous atmosphere because it lacked a centerprint? Sometimes architecture, lighting and sounds are enough.

That said, the mine part of this level was really good, great to see a fresh addition to the base theme. However it needed proper contrast (i.e. lighting, sounds) to the sunlit base area to make it really stand out.

Further commentary coming when I've finished playing the map (I suck). 

I missed it because I was busy writing a comment, then forgot to press. Also, I was suspicious there might be monsters behind it, so moved on and found other interesting things ... :-P

Other people didn't even read the centerprints, though...

It's pretty nice, the mine section and the stretch from the library to the lab entrance especially.

I'm still amazed that shooting a lamp will open a hidden door :-P

I also see that you can use the shaft on the shamblers. I miscalculated the range because I rarely use it; I don't play DM.

Shambler, I can't see your demo. Not version 15. AguirRe's engine? 

I really enjoyed this map. Very slick brushwork and detailing, pacing was good, and some nice visual storytelling with the ruins.

I agree with the others on a few points. The fiends were ineffective, the lighting in the outdoor section was flat and unrealistic (an obvious, angled sun light would have added so much here), and ammo was slightly skimpy.

Personally, I wanted the slipgate to take me to a final boss battle or reveal some cool vista. It felt like I fought so hard to open it and then the map just ended.

Still, a fun level, very nice work. 

nice map, i also think this is perfect size of a Quake map... after i finish tchak my maps will have all this kind of size!

first run!

http://trinca.quaddicted.com/temp/tr_evil.zip

gameplay was fun(never hard and never easy), had a little big luck in demons...
thks god i dind�t died! i got short amo at final area maby becouse i didn�t get any secret amo :(

p.s-> more please!!! 

"Do you feel that E1M3 didn't convey its hideous, cavernous atmosphere because it lacked a centerprint? Sometimes architecture, lighting and sounds are enough. "

I wanted to infuse something of the essence of the people who lived/worked there and that's difficult to do through architecture and lighting. It was an experiment - one that I probably won't repeat. 

This is a cool map with cool things in. Mines/ruins especially, library and shizzle too. 

Watching the demo I'm learning some great stuff:

- people generally like the sneak peak at the library at the start. lots of people stopped and looked at the goodies inside.

- the first secret is maybe too hard to find. trinca was looking upwards like crazy but still couldn't see the light fixture he needed to shoot.

- the fiends were a mistake. I needed to either completely rework the brushes in that area or lose them entirely.

- most people are getting through the level with ammo to spare despite all the bitching. :)

- the ending needed more ... punch. it worked out alright but it wasn't the fight I wanted it to be. needed more low level dudes, maybe.

- the mines worked out great. They came together nicely during editing and they offer a pretty unique look I haven't seen in many other levels.

- I need a break from the base set. there's only so much you can do before it all starts repeating itself.

- I'm happy to have gotten this level DONE. It's my first full Quake level in many, many years and it excites me that I can still bring one to completion. 

remember that in this place, you will get the biggest amount of bitching possible. Normal ppl will probably LOVE your levels :-P

And yeah, it is a good map. my second and third runs were much more enjoyable. All the comments I made were entirely from the perspective of encountering a totally new environment.

Do you want a 4th run demo? :) It's a gigantic difference.

Cheers.

And more plz ++ 

and not just this ending fight, but most ending fights.

it doesn't really build up to anything.

what i did was i would stay under cover and wait for the scrags to come into range and then i'd kill them from the ramps opposite of the shambler holder. then i'd go back up to where the button was and i'd snipe the shambler off.

then you get to the second one and the exact same thing happens.

it would have been cool if you used a trigger_count so that the second button not only opened the standard monsters but released extra scrags or lowered the shambler holder so he could get out and pose more of a threat.

and then, there's the inherent flaw with fighting a group of monsters: the challenge becomes less and less the more you kill. in a proper experience, the challenge should go up the further into the fight you get. sadly, this isn't really possible. (and not really your fault in this case, just a fault with shooters in general) 

I think I agree with Willem's comments.

For me, I tended to not read the centerprints because I have been trained to get all jumpy and paranoid when I press buttons :)

I got raped on my first drop into the mines, my fault for playing on nightmare I guess :) Ammo was certainly tight, had to try to avoid gibbing things, though if I'd got into the gl secret it would have been fine. A big box of cells behind the 'security door' would have been sweet, I think.

Architecture was very nice. There's something slightly strange about this modern style of base architecture and not having Quoth baddies..