but I agree Gibhard looks excellent. Super-coherent look, great implementation of that pixel aesthetic. Low-ish res sprite weapons work great. The textures are appropriately low-res, unfiltered, and well executed. Effects all look good. Combat looks enjoyable.

Potential shortfall is obviously the fact that it's proc-gen and time will tell if that can be executed well. 

Close to the Quake aesthetic. It's dingy and brown and pixellated, but it is actually hugely atmospheric and oppressive. It does that thing where the lack of detail causes your mind to fill in the blanks.

Only thing is it's so intense and oppressive, i find it a bit much after a while. I guess you could consider that a compliment. 

To me majority of Quake mods and maps and also Doom mods and maps are far superior to these attempts.

Recently I have been playing "The Ultimate Torment and Torture Supportive Edition" with Brutaldoom and having a blast. I doubt any of the so-called retro titles can give me similar enjoyment. 

Brutaldoom 

Brutaldoom is a decent TC whatevs, fuck the drama around SgtMarK who cares?

Better than above mentionned games as Kingold says.

I think there is real bank to be made on a real "oldschool" FPS a la Quake 1 - it will create a following and proper hype, the public is ready for it and all they get is the (mostly crap) listed above to try hard as they can to enjoy for want of that having that "old school fps" experience again.

For this to work though the way of stripping it down (procgen, ridiculously low res simple gfx etc) is not the way to go, it needs to be done in a GRAND way.
Super art direction (but simple efficient limited engine), low system specs - awesome performance 100+ fps easy on weaker systems (how can one justify shit perfoamnce on "retro" ?) real SP campaign, good MP & great netcode with dedic private and public servers etc etc, moddability and mappability.

Not an undertaking for a small low funds indie team I don't think but who knows...

I know we are on func, and its obvious, but the extent of beauty being pulled out of the Q1 engine from the quality of custom maps being made these days is a perfect example of what a large well funded art team should of such a project would be working on (and not endless wow fx multi artist team assets) 

On and yeah, another "modern" touch that could go a long way - great fucking sound design with great fucking sound tech - a la positional stuff in Thief.

There is a great deal that can be done with the diverting of the massive art team resources put in AAA games towards more polishing, the subtle touches and generally quality over quantity to make a "retro" fps feel like much much more than just that.

And AAA quake 1 2017 could be made and very profitable if a few execs somewhere had the vision.. 

i think it's wishful thinking that a publisher would put a "big" budget into a retro shooter. Way less bankable than a modern shooter with AAA graphics, no matter how predictable those can be. 

Here's a brief list of what I perceptive as mistakes and shortcomings found in modern "retro" FPS games (and their remedies):

• absence of proper level design - level design is the very core of a good FPS. you can have a phenomenal aesthetic and clever ai, but that is absolutely no substitute for real, good level design. inversely, a game can have a lackluster aesthetic and dumb ai but still be a very good game by virtue of it's level design. IMO, if one had to choose a single most important aspect of a game it would be this. sadly, level design seems to me the most overlooked in the modern retro FPS scene.

• inappropriate/inconsistent art style - this one is pretty self-explanatory. execution goes a long way, even uninteresting or derivative designs can hold their own if executed properly. IMO, I think that materials (bumps, norms, specs, etc) are not only often inappropriate, but poorly executed as well. even materials subtly and tastefully used are still ultimately out of place. spend time making one good diffuse map rather than throwing in all the bells and whistles because you can. also, I don't remember any FPS from the days of old that used 8-bit music.

• unrestrained and haphazard design - classic FPSes were defined by outside limitations (hardware, tools, etc). this created not only a certain look, but a feel. these games oozed creativity that is often a product of the devs working within and around these limitations. modern retro FPS devs need to think deeply about appropriate limits, impose them, adhere to them and work creatively within them.

• respect the player - there is a strong temptation to "dumb-down" and "hand-hold". I sympathize, but stop it. understand your audience, they're much more experienced and astute than you give them credit for. also, don't swing too far in the other direction. making something stupidly difficult or obtuse is not good design and it's not retro. these games need to be pleasurably challenging and rewarding.

• one-dimensionality - this is more general but is a common trait among these games. The "retro" aspect is approached more as a gimmick than an ethos. devs seem to pick a single and often easily identifiable attribute of oldsclochool FPSes (pixelation, lowpoly, speed, gore) and run with it, seemingly in a vacuum. this results in a caricature, exaggerated and shallow, rather than an authentic classic fps experience. oldschool FPSes are often more nuanced than people think and are a careful balance of many things.

It's not enough to execute one of these correctly. You have to hit all of them. I'm sure there's more to add to this list (there is) but I have stuff to do :D 

And I already think I agree 100%. 

I intended to keep it at bullet points with maybe a single sentence explanation but ended up getting a little wordy :/

the bold text makes a good TL;DR 

i think it's wishful thinking that a publisher would put a "big" budget into a retro shooter.

DOOM 2016 would like a word... 

that was in response to

There is a great deal that can be done with the diverting of the massive art team resources put in AAA games towards more polishing, the subtle touches and generally quality over quantity to make a "retro" fps feel like much much more than just that.

Doom 2016 is as AAA and modern as they come (obviously the gameplay takes inspiration from classic shooters and rewards action etc) 

He sounds like and definitely looks like, he knows what he is doing. 

Doom2016 indeed is a an example of a modern FPS taking more retro mechanics and having success.


I think this is highly underestimated : the wow factor achievable if the human resources poured into the crafting all the stuff needed for impressive modern gfx were poured into doing more with less a la Quake1.

You got to think the scale, detail and polish achievable. Of course there would be no reasons to have any limits on level size, number of brushes etc, not for the purpose or silly-level acrchitectural detail but rather gigantic maps

Imagine this kind of stuff http://quaketastic.com/files/jam9.png on an insane scale, where you can see off kilometers into the distance (using modern gfx power for high render res and max AA etc to keep all that lovingly designed crisp detail as much as possible)

These AAA level human resources can be busy with scripting actual events in the distance while you make you way thorugh the episode sized level, eg enemy and friendly forces fighting far off in the distance, actually happening in level in engine


I think that in todays almost bland me-too AAA eyecandy gfx this would actual have a much higher impact than classis "gud gfx" 

Doom 4 barely has anything retro in it though, apart from keycards and maybe the health drops from monsters that is vaguely similar to Life Essence in Blood. The progression is almost the same as Painkiller's which is absolutely NOT a retro FPS.

Also killpixel is spot on. 

killpixel's project looks fantastic and nails the the retro-shooter aesthetic. No wonder his critique of modern shooters is also so spot on. 

...it so far doesn't like it's going to fit in with "a general trend of not hitting the mark" ;) 

now that's a hot trend 

wait till you get your hands on the demo then decide if it belongs on a list :D 

are you going to use us to make maps for your game?

please? 

Hmm. I'm tempted to give you a cute answer like "maybe :)" but that wouldn't satisfy me if I were asking. So to be frank (and probably overly candid) yes, it is intended that the level design team will be comprised of people from the quake, doom and duke nukem 3d communities. HOWEVER, I have not started assembling the team and I'm still quite a ways away. There are still things to be done, things that remain be seen and others that have yet to fall into place. The project's destiny will be clearer after the demo (I'm doing my best to get it out Q1 2018).

So there you go :D 

Dusk, Ion Maiden, Amid Evil and Gibhard.

Most retro inspired shooters are not good. Strafe is one of the big name examples where they failed to properly do the genre justice. Most of them aren't even as good as Strafe. 

Strafe is a roguelike-ish FPS, not a Quake clone. 

Graphics/asthetics like Devil Daggers, hub-centered world design and combat pacing similar to that of Hexen, slow but not too slow, Quake-style thematic variations, just enough big-picture polish for effect without going overboard into minute details.