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the model looks quiet symetric while the original looks rather crippled.
For texturing I must say it suits good, knowing how hard it is to fit them. But I would make it more damaged, somehowe a more reacktive attitude. you might want to add more shape to the main model. At the moment he still looks really low poly and simple, so there doesn't seem to be much point in changing the ogre for an updated one unless there is a significant improvement in both mesh and skin.
I'd concentrate on his characteristic parts most. Give him stubby legs and no neck with a chunky head and make his funny armour stand out more, then I'd probably do something with the chainsaw to make it look even meaner (than the original id chainsaw, which looks mean :). Try and think what cloud/carmack might have wanted him to look like had they had a bit more headroom. I also imagined him with an apron sometimes (splattered with blood like a butcher's apron of course.) If there were ever a need for an alternate Ogre skin, that would be a very suitable look for him.
I see it as a kind of leather 'apron' type thing for want of a better word, with darker brown cloth to the side, and also leather shoulderpads. But there is such thing as leather armour so I guess it serves as both. On the level of detail, the apron is at the moment contoured but not embossed, if you understand what I mean. There are polygons in the torso that correspond to it's outline, but they join directly to the polygons for the cloth.
The mesh is already at 940 odd polygons, and the limit is either 1000 or 1024, I forget which. Either way, there's not a whole lot more scope for detail, the mesh is pretty efficient, although some polys could maybe be shaved off the back, which isn't seen much, and bought to the front. The chainsaw is a difficult one, as I'm not sure how to do the saw blades on it. Going the zerstorer way of modelling spikes on seems out of the question, in a full model like this they'll just get mangled by the mdl format. So I guess it'll just have to be carefully skinned, but I'll keep thinking. The single most overwhelming piece of feedback is that the ogre shouldn't have a neck, so I've acted on that one straight away. I agree that the face does look flat from the screenshot, but I'm gonna try and blame the angle and the quake model format for flattening it. Here's a 3/4 angle shot from the editor with a better view of the shape of it. http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/~ajd70/ogregmax.jpg If it keeps getting flattened like that when I export, I'll try exaggerating the features a bit so something shows up. A lot of this is going to be fighting against the twin limits of the mdl format, low polygon limit and poor vertex accuracy. Well, polygon limit is an engine limit, but still... That second shot looks great my man! Did you already get rid of the neck on it? Looks like it, but I'm not entirely sure. But anyhow, why such a high poly count for such a sad model format? Once you get into animating all that detail you've put into the face for example (omg a nose) will more or less get lost, as the vertexes will swim around on his face. Not entirely that bad ofcourse, but not far from it. I must admit Quake2 had close to this level of detail on its monsters, which has a model format suffering as much from wobbleitis as Quakes, so it might just work. Chillo makes models with around 1500 polys using the Quake model format, and they sometimes look just fine.
This post has no purpose, as I just contradicted myself, but whatever. Cool stuff man. Yeah, the neck is already gone, the model wasn't changed that much, I just gave it a slouch by adjusting the neck and head bones. I think I can get away with that level of detail better than a md2 could, because the quake 1 model format is in some ways less prone to wobble.
Both model formats do compressed coordinates, in that a single byte is uses to store each coordinate, from -127 to 127. The engine then applies a scale factor and a translation vector to these coordinates to give the model the correct scale. The difference is that mdl has a single scale factor and translation vector for the entire model, whereas md2 defines the translation vectors and scales per frame. This has advantages if your model grows and shinks - the problem is that models rarely do, they tend to occupy the same volume. So md2s will generally try and maximise the accuracy per frame by setting the scale to the model's maximum extents/127. That sounds like a good idea, but if your model moves in the frame so that the outermost vertex in any direction changes, then the positions of every vertex get recalculated. Hence you get a lot of wobble. In mdl, if a vertex doesn't move, then it will snap to the same point on the grid next frame. You could of course get around this in the md2, after all, it's a more flexable format in principle. For instance, you could just write the same scale/origin for all frames, emulating the mdl format. A better solution might be to write the same origin/scale for all frames in the same animation scene - or have an option that controls when you inherit the scale/location from the previous frame. That way, when the whole body is moving anyway, you can make use of the increased accuracy, and when it's a smaller motion of just part of the model you could hold things still. But I've not seen an md2 editor/exporter that offers these kinds of controls. The trick for good results in mdl is either to keep something still, or make sure the animation is large if it moves. Then you tend to get good results. Exaggerating animations to a degree is usually a good idea anyway, so they are apparent on screen. If you need to do translational movement, then try and do it on the qc side of things, and constantly centre your mesh in the mdl. In any case, to make the mdls I export an md3 and covert it with quark. So I'm sure I can release the intermediate md3 as well, for people with engines that support 'em. Who knows, there might even be a normal/glossmapped version too... ...since I am a complete donkey at doing anything for this community except playing Quake, since a little discussion on visuals of the Ogre arose and I did not feel like doing anything at work, I decided I'd do a SpeedSketching session and had a take on the Ogre. This is the result
http://shub-hub.quaddicted.com/files/images/the_silent_ogresketch.jpg and this is likely to have me blown right out of the office, people looked at me weird while I was doing it... I know it sucks bad, but, hey, it's only a wacom graphire! You can draw with more ease on your fingernails! Anyyways, this is how, IMHO, da Ogre should look like, a little dumb or retarded (in a Friday 13th sense) while resting, and completely open jawed, all-out-of-it, when it's awake... Hope someone out there enjoys my attempts at being fired... ... Maybe a lower res works better for everyone...
http://shub-hub.quaddicted.com/files/images/the_silent_ogresketch_lo.jpg Fits the style well, I always thought cell-shading would look good in Quake if done properly (even though everyone probably hates the idea). Getting blood spraying across walls and dismembered limbs in a cartoon style would be pretty cool.
I tried it for Q2, the Lazarus mod along with the Ratamahatta model (for enemies) for a mini-mod. Ended up with quite a few maps but Q2 couldn't compile them, even with Dewan's compilers. Got BSP but no light. Maybe one day in the more robust Quake engine. I can probably import the geometry from Maybe there are too many polys in the ogre's head or maybe it is too round but somehow it looks a little like Charlie Brown to me o_O
The Silent's pics are actually very nice. I like the way the ogre's mouth looks like his lips got torn off. The little guy in the lower left corner is perfect, to me, proportion-wise. You guys should collaborate ^_~ you should try to draw that in some orthographic views (front, side, back) and stuff.. that'd make a kick ass model, even if it wasn't in quake and just a high poly thing.
very nice. I see you went with the "elephant toes" thing that I tried originally with my picture... except I think you did a better job of it. The tunic he's wearing is well-drawn, but seems to soft a fabric for someone like him to wear.
Someone should collect all the good quake artwork that people have made.... like that rocketlauncher guy drawn by the well-known concept artist.... and the furry shambler in the room with the wallpaper and bloody floor... and put it all in one place. We can always blame those three herberts...
Anybody could have done it, Somebody should have done it, but you can bet your boots that Nobody will end up doing it ;) They are pretty much sorted by creator on my harddisk and I excluded a lot of renders of cg models. Many of them come from a search for quake art at deviantart.com months ago. Consider it a temporary folder please.
http://www.quaddicted.com/art/ If someone feels like making a good page for Quake art, please do! ..you make me blush!!!!
neg!ke: u r a mapping genius, thanks for the kind words and all your awzam levels. ijed : first of all I have to apologize for the lack of feedback on Warp Spasm, I did not forget, it's only been 2 terrible months, I cover my head in horse poop and bow down before ya. Glad you liked my sketch, the cel shading was not intentional, just the quickest technique to pull off while the boss was not looking, but I think it turned out pretty good... Generic: to tell the truth, the proportions of the lil' ogrey are simply drawn on top of a screenshot, then beefed up and rounded a bit, so proportions are id's really... Damn, I was so tempted not to confess... But, you're right, lenghtening the arms and shortening the toes give more hulking figures. Thanks for appreciation. Necros: the same as for neg!ke. Thanks for countless hours of unforgettable quake! I would love to be able to try my hand at skinning some model, but, really, I don't have a clue where to begin... I cannot count the times I installed Gtkradiant, QUark, Worldcraft, built my firt room, put in a monster and that was it. Once I even found a program to make quake skins but never tried... I think this is a good time to start. Thanks! meltslime: Thanks for the compliment's on Ogrey's tiny feet! I can't find your picture, tho'... is it an earlier post? The dress, well, u r right, I thought about it as a leather apron, but came out a lil' too soft(leather do bend anyway, maybe in a stiffer fashion which is pretty hard to render). Spirit: did you really had to post all that good stuff during my wharolian quarter of an hour? Some of them are amazing! Few impressions I have(and always had) of ogres ingame to wrap things up: The mouth is a gaping maw, I did not sketch it exactly as I "feel" it ingame, to me it has no teeth, just loose skin as if the jaw was taken out of it, and drools like hell... Maybe teeth could be inside the mouth, very tiny, like piranhas(?) The expression when idle, or after having killed you, should be almost sad, but not fully understanding things, as a demented child that has just ripped apart grandma... The weapons, well, I'm surprised nobody pointed that out (I drew them very bad), but to me(and even id hinted this in the manual) they are inserted into flesh a la Q2, the ogre has no hands, but a chainsaw and a grenade launcher wired to his central nervous system. Well, I guees it's time to call it a night, thanks again to everyone for your appreciation and, if anybody ever need some kind of collaboration on a quake related project, I'd be happy to lend my pencil! Goodnight! That middle sketch are pretty sweet. It would look good on a TShirt at Quakecon. Visual style there reminds me of Ronin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin_(comic) (a GoodThing).
this was mine: http://www.celephais.net/shite/ogre6.jpg
That kind of looks like what I'd imagine an ogre to look like if it were to make an appearance on Sesame Street.
who does his toesies? I would have gone with midnight blue but Navajo red is realy cool too.
Zwif -- SS must have really changed since I was a kid. Thunderbolt fried Big Bird chicken, anyone?
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