it might have something going for it, but fact is most people want firepower. I toyed around a bit, and if you put the (one) RL right under the hole in the floor, there are suddenly multiple ways to get to/control/escape from that place, especially if you figure in rocketjumping. In my Q2 port, I put a chaingun in the room with bars for some balance. Don't forget there's also a GL in a strategic place. I imagine it will be a cool 2-4 people dm/ffa map.

right now, what incentive do people have to go down there? a green armor?

Speeds: I have a working toolchain now, screenies are here:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6035/quake10ol3.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8458/quake11uo8.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4400/quake12jo8.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2020/quake13en1.jpg

playtesting can begin as soon as I find a host to upload it...

heh, btw the original id map file had a leak!!! *grin* 

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6668/joequake011nm1.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8402/joequake012cs9.jpg

hum, where did the shadows go? 

Nobody seriously uses the RL in quake2 DM. if they do they haven't realized it's not as useful as it is in qw/q3. The two weapons you always see the pros going for is the railgun and the chaingun.

Ultimately you will come out furthest ahead if you throw the old item placement to the wind and just place the items in the empty layout the way that layout and Q2 DM gameplay dictates they be placed. You don't NEED to swap an armor for an armor. See how the map plays if players have access to railguns, and then place the railgun according to how much of a risk it should be to go for, and how hard it should be to dominate. Do the same for all the items, decide how to place them, or if you should include them at all.

With thought, your map will be much more than "just another DM6 remake," which is all the others are. 

LUN: RL is still very usefull tho

golden_boy: more spotlights plz 

Lunaran, I get what you're saying. You gave me food for thought and I will probably try that approach (I started doing that to an extent in my dm1 port.)

I'm hesitant to include a railgun in either dm4, dm1 or dm6 because the maps are pretty small and it's painfully obvious which routes the players take most of the time. Imagine enemy is at MH in dm4, and I have a railgun. I can just post myself at the shaft ledge. If I'm a good railer, I'll hit him every time he tries to get out. (of course, the same goes for Q1's rocket launcher, so I'm probably overestimating that.)

I took a few liberties concerning item placement already. I'm more than willing to accept suggestions.

As is probably apparent, I am striving to pay homage to the originals, both in texturing and in rawness.

Speeds: I haven't really tinkered with the lighting yet, it's 99% original. I'm still wondering why it's so much brighter in Q2. Perhaps I accidentally activated some sunlight while compiling. No idea.

I need a free hoster for the bsp files, any suggestions? 

It's probably because Q2 lighting bounces the light off of walls and what not, whereas Quake does not. 

can't you deactivate radiosity or whatever the bouncing light is called? 

Just run light with -bounce 0 and it won't do any.

Golden, railgun in dm6 probably can't be much more powerful than qw-rl in dm6. even if it is, putting it in the most risky spot you can find (like the deadend) and simply not providing an ounce of ammo for it anywhere else would emasculate ANY weapon on that map. if the up player's strategy is to focus on the RG, he's going to be constantly leaving his bare ass out waiting for the down player to kick it if he has to keep going for that RG. 

I agree that the deadend (MH room) is the natural place for the railgun. Providing abundant bullet and rocket ammo but no extra slugs. Testing shows that this variant is actually rather cool, because it introduces danger.

Q: Is it too powerful to leave the MH in the same room as the rail? An alternative would be to put it in the yellow armor spot (armor room.) There's too much armor in the map anyway (I already substituted a GA with shards.)

Lunaran, thanks for your invaluable input. RPG earns a special thanks by now, too, if only for making kickass maps :-) *mumble* *munch* 

q2rad only does radiosity for surface emitted light. Point lights do not bounce no matter what.

However, point lights still look different in q2 vs. q1 becuase (i think) there's a different angle falloff or something like that. 

kudos for using quest btw.
using its screenshots is kind of tricky though. ps doesn't display them properly (they're way too dark), so i used the semi-clever hack of importing them to openoffice (or any other program) and from there copy/paste them to a new ps image. sounds dumb, and really is in the end but it works at least... :P 

You should check out the map match1 for quake 2, it's quite similiar to q1's dm4 and quite fun, I recommend you check it out.

It's nice for competitive play too, they used it at quakecon in 2005 I remember(or was it 2004?).

Too bad the map looks like shit. 

*me smacks metlslime* Of course point lights bounce in Q2! 

is bullshit
its been dismissed as a duel map on the pro scene here. RA placement is idiotic

looks like shit and has wrong proportions too 

or two to run around a small (read cramped) Doom 3 deathmatch map. fire me an e-mail if interested, i'll have a pak assembled this weekend. 

I'm not going to comment because I don't want to badmouth it. Speeds is basically right.

I could care less if my map is used at quakecon, I just want to do a really good port because *I* love to play those maps, but also love Q2.

:-)

Thanks neg!ke for the screenshot tip. I use quest because it does what I need. So far. 

Hi!

And.... really??? I was pretty sure they didn't... How could I not have noticed after all the maps I made? Hmm, I'll have to check on that, I still can't believe it.

P.S. How is the Oblivion patch going? :) 

Heya! Been an occasional lurker here for ages, finally had something relevant to contribute. ;)

You're prolly thinking of styled lights (includes triggered ones). Those never bounce. You're are right about the angle falloff. Quake's point lights look more like using _angfade 0.5 in ArghRad for Q2.

Oblivion is... um... still there. :} 

as in that buggy q2 mission pack ?

I thought the patch for that had been abandoned long ago ? 

More spq2 is always good... considering the rarity of new releases... and a whole (bug-free) mission pack? Count me in.

at least Argh still has the source (if it's "still there"...) 

i'md all for it, I was just surprised as I thought the patch was never coming out since it was being worked on well over 2 years ago. 

I tried lighting with -bounce 0 and the result looks like total shit. I mean shocking. Totally blocky shadows, black patches... *shudder* I'm gonna live with the bouncing, and so shall you. If anyone wants it *much* darker (i.e. more apparent "spotlights"), this is gonna take mucho work. Speeds: Can you be more verbose about your spotlights requirements?

nitin: I see. I seem to remember a thread about it at TenFour, which has been going on like forever. 

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/800/quake16io8.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6651/quake17pu7.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2120/quake18xa8.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3660/quake21ja5.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3139/quake23ns0.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1410/quake28ua7.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/271/quake31dx8.jpg

changelog:

- rail is in MH room.
- took out quad. New GA is where quad/sng was.
- RL is where YA was.
- took out RA. YA is where RA/RL was.
- took out shotgun. who wants that anyway.
- uncounted things. yaaaaawn.

i've got to stop spamming :-P 

You might try using -bounce 4 instead of bounce 0. I think 8 is the default, so you might be able to find a happy medium where the shadows have more contrast, but without ugly side-effects. 

I registered, so anyone who wants to test dm42q2.bsp should be able to see my email and use it :-)

I'll also ask around...