http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2520/quest003kj4.jpg

it looks much better in the editor, the screenies just were too dark somehow and got re-gimped. This is just to show the texturing scheme, because you all know that map. :-)

Yes, it's DM4Q2. (pun intended) I started doing it in the mine textures, but they didn't fit really. What I needed was a perfectly tiling 64x64 texture that looked a bit like wizmetal, and after some searching q2's texes I found that little rusty gem. I think I never saw it in the actual game, though, at least I don't remember.

how should I substitute the weapons? I was thinking Chaingun as a substitute for the shaft? Machinegun instead of SNG, and shotgun instead of nailgun?

rest would stay the same apart from the slipgates, Q2 teleporters look very different but work the same.

i didn't decide on a ceiling texture yet. the original is crappy too, so I'll probably just go with some brown stuff.

its amazing how crappy the original is, when you really study it. 

oh, any tips on what tools to use for compiling q2 maps? 

nailgun -> machinegun
SNG -> chaingun
lightning -> hyperblaster

But you should probably tune it based on playtesting too... sometimes the obvious replacements are not the best, becuase games are balanced differently. 

you'll probably want to add a couple of shotguns around, since quake players start with a shotgun.

Tools: Arghrad was definitely the preferred lighting tool when I was making q2 maps. As for qbsp and vis, you could use the originals, but I seem to remember some slightly improved versions put out by somebody... can't remember the names though. 

didn't think about the hyperblaster. of course.

I only thought chaingun because that's what q2 players like to use in close combat, in exactly the same place where q1 players use the shaft. i can't imagine someone preferring the hyper when they can have this.

of course the hyper has no spin-up time.

interesting idea about additional shotguns. although they're not really comparable to the q1 boomstick. 

Similar to what metlslime said, Arghrad was the compiler of choice when I was making Quake 2 maps. gddqbsp3 and gddqvis3 by Geoffrey Obi DeWan Kenobi were also considered the best replacements for qbsp and vis. You can get those two here: http://home.insightbb.com/~gryndehl/q2compile/quake2.html 

I'll try to compile them (have no windows.) no linux makefiles though. that might become a problem. 

The gdd tools were the ones I was trying to think of. 

I'd go with that. Unless, of course, your copious playtesting proves this to be a bad idea, as metl said. 

I'll probably make 2 beta versions and give them to people to playtest. First version will have CG, MG, SG and second version will have HB, CG, MG.

When I do DM6Q2 I'll probably shift the shaft for a hyper, because the GA room would become totally obsolete with only an MP for the SNG.

what to use instead of the ring in DM6, power shield? 

Quake2 mapping takes its toll.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5509/boogeymanfj3.jpg 

golden, couild u make bigger screenshots that actually show some map?

no PS, cause its rechargable it can be kept forever.
unless you have 1 pack of cells with 60sec respawn time :)

hyper does have small spinup/down time
hyper is much harder to aim than chain at any long distance, cause chain is hitscan.

there is already dm6 remake in q2 

I have a problem with Quest atm, the screenshots are totally unusable. They're much too dark (even if the map in Quest looks fine.) I have no idea why this is.

I would give you in-game screenshots if I could even compile the map. I am on Linux. There is apparently no working set of Q2 utilities on Linux (no wonder, considering their age.) I am installing wine at the moment, which should allow me to use the old windows binaries (grr.)

You're right about the power shield in DM6. Any better idea? I am aware of the old dm6 port from 1997 (?), I have it and studied it. ;-) However, in that map

a) the textures suck (black tech everywhere)
b) the teleporter setup is awkward
c) the item placement is strange

and I think I can do better. I think I can even implement slipgates, which are pretty much defining the architecture of the map. dm6 is hard to port though because of the strong Quake1/episode1 theme. Nothing in Q2 resembles that. The best I found is some red brick texture. I don't want to use custom texes.

atm I am doing dm1, because it's easy, there is a nice replacement texture (cell block), and if you put in some weapons it's a good map. A great one actually. There is a pretty obvious spot for a rocket launcher in there :-) no idea why id only put in some nailguns.

dm2 would also make a good Q2 map, I think I could hit the atmosphere pretty well (black metal textures etc.) Not sure how well Q2 bots could navigate it though.

Screenshots will be coming when I get some working tools.

While remaking DM1 yesterday, I thought how cool it would be if someone did a Version 2 of it (for original quake), with some real weapons. (hint, hint) 

I think it's absolutely brilliant that DM1 doesn't have a rocket launcher. The RL tends to dominate the play of most maps, so DM1 forces everybody to rethink their tactics.

I suppose the Q2 RL is slightly slower so it might not dominate the map quite as much, but I still don't see a need for it personally. 

it might have something going for it, but fact is most people want firepower. I toyed around a bit, and if you put the (one) RL right under the hole in the floor, there are suddenly multiple ways to get to/control/escape from that place, especially if you figure in rocketjumping. In my Q2 port, I put a chaingun in the room with bars for some balance. Don't forget there's also a GL in a strategic place. I imagine it will be a cool 2-4 people dm/ffa map.

right now, what incentive do people have to go down there? a green armor?

Speeds: I have a working toolchain now, screenies are here:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6035/quake10ol3.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8458/quake11uo8.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4400/quake12jo8.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2020/quake13en1.jpg

playtesting can begin as soon as I find a host to upload it...

heh, btw the original id map file had a leak!!! *grin* 

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6668/joequake011nm1.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8402/joequake012cs9.jpg

hum, where did the shadows go? 

Nobody seriously uses the RL in quake2 DM. if they do they haven't realized it's not as useful as it is in qw/q3. The two weapons you always see the pros going for is the railgun and the chaingun.

Ultimately you will come out furthest ahead if you throw the old item placement to the wind and just place the items in the empty layout the way that layout and Q2 DM gameplay dictates they be placed. You don't NEED to swap an armor for an armor. See how the map plays if players have access to railguns, and then place the railgun according to how much of a risk it should be to go for, and how hard it should be to dominate. Do the same for all the items, decide how to place them, or if you should include them at all.

With thought, your map will be much more than "just another DM6 remake," which is all the others are. 

LUN: RL is still very usefull tho

golden_boy: more spotlights plz 

Lunaran, I get what you're saying. You gave me food for thought and I will probably try that approach (I started doing that to an extent in my dm1 port.)

I'm hesitant to include a railgun in either dm4, dm1 or dm6 because the maps are pretty small and it's painfully obvious which routes the players take most of the time. Imagine enemy is at MH in dm4, and I have a railgun. I can just post myself at the shaft ledge. If I'm a good railer, I'll hit him every time he tries to get out. (of course, the same goes for Q1's rocket launcher, so I'm probably overestimating that.)

I took a few liberties concerning item placement already. I'm more than willing to accept suggestions.

As is probably apparent, I am striving to pay homage to the originals, both in texturing and in rawness.

Speeds: I haven't really tinkered with the lighting yet, it's 99% original. I'm still wondering why it's so much brighter in Q2. Perhaps I accidentally activated some sunlight while compiling. No idea.

I need a free hoster for the bsp files, any suggestions? 

It's probably because Q2 lighting bounces the light off of walls and what not, whereas Quake does not. 

can't you deactivate radiosity or whatever the bouncing light is called? 

Just run light with -bounce 0 and it won't do any.

Golden, railgun in dm6 probably can't be much more powerful than qw-rl in dm6. even if it is, putting it in the most risky spot you can find (like the deadend) and simply not providing an ounce of ammo for it anywhere else would emasculate ANY weapon on that map. if the up player's strategy is to focus on the RG, he's going to be constantly leaving his bare ass out waiting for the down player to kick it if he has to keep going for that RG. 

I agree that the deadend (MH room) is the natural place for the railgun. Providing abundant bullet and rocket ammo but no extra slugs. Testing shows that this variant is actually rather cool, because it introduces danger.

Q: Is it too powerful to leave the MH in the same room as the rail? An alternative would be to put it in the yellow armor spot (armor room.) There's too much armor in the map anyway (I already substituted a GA with shards.)

Lunaran, thanks for your invaluable input. RPG earns a special thanks by now, too, if only for making kickass maps :-) *mumble* *munch* 

q2rad only does radiosity for surface emitted light. Point lights do not bounce no matter what.

However, point lights still look different in q2 vs. q1 becuase (i think) there's a different angle falloff or something like that. 

kudos for using quest btw.
using its screenshots is kind of tricky though. ps doesn't display them properly (they're way too dark), so i used the semi-clever hack of importing them to openoffice (or any other program) and from there copy/paste them to a new ps image. sounds dumb, and really is in the end but it works at least... :P